Thursday, April 2, 2009

Mokpo's Rommel Hof.



Back in February Kim Ja-young wrote to the Korea Times about a familiar topic here.
While listening to his experiences in Korea I felt embarrassed when he talked about seeing a jazz bar in Mokpo, South Jeolla Province, which painted on its exterior wall a portrait of an infamous Nazi SS officer standing on a tank. Really? Could there actually be a Nazi bar in Mokpo?

Yes, yes there could, and you can add Mokpo's Rommel Hof (롬멜), also advertised as a jazz bar, to the list of Nazi-themed establishments in Korea. It's named after the Nazi Field Marshal Erwin Rommel and is located just down the street from the E-Mart in Okam-dong.




Kim gets points for recognizing that it's wrong to use Nazi paraphernelia as decoration and for dropping my name, though she loses points for this line:
Surely, most Koreans have sympathy for Jewish people because we suffered similar cruelties by the Japanese invasion and subsequent occupation.

No, the Holocaust really isn't comparable to the Japanese occupation of Korea. Japan did some bad things to Korea, but this need to cast Korea's suffering into something it's not really just seems masochistic. It's an attempt to connect Korea's situation to something that has global resonance, and in this light it's not that different from these ridiculous comparisons I like to collect.

You'll read Koreans bringing up the Jews from time to time, sometimes to make comparisons like those above, or to appreciate-slash-envy a relatively small ethnic group that has come to be so, um, influential in the US. But for a people who put a lot of stock in pure-blood ideology and protecting the quote-unquote purity of the people, who take a deep interest in things like eugenics and blood-type, who love grandiose displays of nationalism, who have displayed a fondness for authoritarian leadership, and who approach territorial disputes with enthusiasm, perhaps they should think more carefully how they're imagining themselves vis-a-vis the Nazis and the Jews. Indeed, sometimes what begins as commisseration turns into anti-Semitism, as in the case of best-selling comic book on the history and culture of the US:
It's impossible to know which of the two races is the most "severe" (or harsh or sharp, "어쩌 보면 두 민족은 전세계에서 가장 '지독한' 민족일지도 몰라")
We Koreans, who are hard-working and diligent and are sad to come in second, can amass great victories in America with our competitive spirit. But in the end each and every time we hit a barrier, and that barrier is the Jews.
p221)
We Koreans, who don't know how to lose to any other race . . .
This is not only true of Koreans: Every other race and ethnicity has this in common.
Cartoon Jew: "So many people hate us, but no one can mess with us."
Jews make up slightly more than 2% of the American population. They control American finance and naturally the American economy controls the world economy. They twist the media to their own ends and control the world of politics. They pilot the U.S. government from behind the scenes and they even have world politics wrapped around their finger (좌지우지). They have a monopoly on Hollywood and paint a picture of the Jewish people as virtuous victims. They play the part of herald for the message that the Arabs and Muslims that they oppose are a barbarous and violent mass.
In a word, the whites at the heart of America are called WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants). . .
". . .but the real group that controls America through money and media pressure is the Jews."

So if you don't understand the Jews, you'll never understand America.

The book, which many of our school libraries carry and many of our students and teachers have read, was ignorant enough to warrant condemnation from the US government. Stuff like that and the other news in my "Nazis in Korea" category have led me to believe the Nazis, the Holocaust, and Jews are topics Koreans should just give a wide berth.

22 comments:

kushibo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kushibo said...

Two points to make. First, this Nazi paraphernalia micro-fetish (and I call it that because it is an persistent obsession but within a very, very narrow slice of the population) is shared with Japan and Taiwan, all three lumped together as an ally of Nazi Germany.

I'm saying that because I think that the true nature of this bizarre disconnect from modern societal norms may have roots in some sort of denial-laden hearkening back to an idealized past. Not sure. Anyway, understanding this will only occur if it's looked at according to what ties it in with the other socioculturally and historically similar countries (i.e., Taiwan and Japan) that also have this weirdness going on within their borders.

Second, it is possible that someone with this Nazism-obsessed World War II fetish might realize that Hitler is a bad, bad guy, but maybe there are some Nazis that are not so.

Back in the 1990s there was a Rommel Hof in the Ewha area, not far from Shinchon Railway Station. I had a discussion about this with a Scotsman I knew who did not think it was a problem and went on to praise the Wüstenfuchs for his characteristics and behavior that made him most un-Hitler like.

Echoing what he said, this is the intro to Rommel at Wikipedia:

Rommel's military successes earned the respect not only of his troops and Adolf Hitler, but also that of his enemy Commonwealth troops in the North African Campaign. An enduring legacy of Rommel's character is that he is also considered to be a chivalrous and humane military officer in contrast with many other figures of Nazi Germany. His famous Afrikakorps was not accused of any war crimes. Indeed, captured Commonwealth soldiers during his Africa campaign were reported to have been largely treated humanely. Furthermore, orders to kill captured Jewish soldiers and civilians out of hand in all theatres of his command were defiantly ignored.

kushibo said...

Oh, yeah, and he was forced to suicide in 1944 because of his ties to the plot to kill Hitler depicted in Valkyrie.

kwandongbrian said...

I have not researched the idea at all, but I have this nagging half-memory that Rommel, though German, might have been a nazi but not a Nazi exactly.

Is "the cleanest of the Nazis" too back-handed a compliment?

I'm not sure if I have a point; Nazi themed, umm, stuff in Korea is wrong, but Rommel themed stuff is either okay or not that wrong. Does that make sense?

Alex said...

~"But for a people who put a lot of stock in pure-blood ideology and protecting the quote-unquote purity of the people, who take a deep interest in things like eugenics and blood-type, who love grandiose displays of nationalism, who have displayed a fondness for authoritarian leadership, and who approach territorial disputes with enthusiasm, perhaps they should think more carefully how they're imagining themselves vis-a-vis the Nazis and the Jews. "~


하하하하하하하하하하하!!!! 짱 짱!

kushibo said...

which painted on its exterior wall a portrait of an infamous Nazi SS officer standing on a tank

And I believe Kim Jayoung is wrong about Rommel being a Nazi SS officer, much less an "infamous" one.

nb said...

Ask a Korean to justify why they think it is human to sell beer with Nazi imagery (or cosmetics) and you will get a dismissive wave of the hand.

kushibo said...

Ask a Korean to justify why they think it is human to sell beer with Nazi imagery (or cosmetics) and you will get a dismissive wave of the hand.

Oh, yeah? Explain this.

Or have a Japanese explain Nazi bars. Or a Taiwanese, or a Hong Konger.

Yes, if you show a picture of Rommel Hof, you will get some Korean trying to provide a speculative, not definitive guess at what it's about.

But I suspect this isn't really about figuring out why a miniscule segment of the former East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere has a lingering Nazism fetish that causes them not to understand (or deny?) the sheer depth of terror of the Holocaust. It's about trying to find yet another reason to bash Korea, show how backward them Koreans are, right?

How many Nazi bars do you suppose there are in South Korea? If there were fifty — which I doubt, just because we'd hear about them more — that would be one for every freakin' million people in the country. There are more than three in 3 million Orange County, that's for sure, but they just hide it quite well. The one difference is that they actually mean what's behind it.

Rommel is not about anti-Semitism or love of Hitler. The worst is that it's about fetishizing Nazi-era looks.

Kim Jayoung's own description of Rommel "infamous SS officer" and (no offense) Brian's own discussion without knowing a whole heck of a lot about him except that he was a German general in World War II, shows how hypersensitized we get in the West about this.

Rommel =/= Hitler

World War II fetishism =/= anti-Semitism

That's not to say that there isn't anti-Semitism in Korea — there is and I would love to get into a discussion about why that is — but I'm just bemoaning the fact that it's so hard to get into an actual discussion about anything because anything potentially bad about Korea triggers a hard-on with half the K-blogosphere over a chance to take another dig at Korea, whether it's deserved or not.

Ku "Rants 'R Us" Shibo

Brian said...

Kushibo, I know Rommel is considered one of the "good" Nazis, and I know it could be thus considered different than a Himmler bar, or Hitler bar, or whatever.

But regardless, how appropriate is it to have a "good" Nazi as the face and namesake of your business?

A discussion about how "Nazi" Rommel was is an interesting one and one that would work in a museum or a college class. Trying to suppose the bar owner is wanting to start that conversation is a little presumptuous, and I suspect he just picked Rommel because (a) he is strong, (b) he had a reputation for nobility and success, and (c) given some (if not many) Koreans have the impression of the Nazis as strong, proud, and sharp dressers, it's not suprising that the proprieter might have picked such a figure for his hof.

The Korean who wrote that KT piece is good for bringing up the bar in the first place, but her points miss the mark. It's not taking a "dig" to suggest why it's wrong to use that kind of theme for a bar, restaurant, or cosmetics commmercial.

And as an aside I get annoyed at how hypersensitive many in the US get at any potential anti-Semitism. And going around calling yourselves the chosen people won't win you any friends, either. But I don't think rolling my eyes at a Rommel bar is being hypersensitive.

Robert Koehler said...

Rommel was not SS, as far as I know.

And yes, he was a gentleman well respected even by his enemies. That said, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto was, from what I know, a fairly well-respected commander, but I doubt he'll grace any drinking establishments around here anytime soon.

kushibo said...

Kushibo, I know Rommel is considered one of the "good" Nazis, and I know it could be thus considered different than a Himmler bar, or Hitler bar, or whatever.

But regardless, how appropriate is it to have a "good" Nazi as the face and namesake of your business?


Good point. The answer may lie in your explanation to a Korean why it's okay to have a hit movie glorifying a Nazi officer who killed in the name of Nazi Germany but then when the war was going badly for long enough decided to go and kill Hitler to end the war, but it's not okay to have a bar named after an admired general who was also associated — and killed over — the same anti-Hitler plot.

My point there is that, especially in the Rommel Bar case, a big part of the problem is that the Rommel proprietor is not so much wrong as he/she is not on the same wavelength as those in the West. Valkyrie okay, Rommel bar not okay.

One other thing that must be considered is the way businesses try to catch people's attention. They often choose names that grab eyeballs but have little to do with anything. A Tampopo noodle house makes sense in Seoul, but not a Tampopo eyeglass shop, but you'll find both.

Maybe you should ask how appropriate it is to have "hofs" in the first place. But they are there, and in the Korean psyche they are inextricably associated with Germany and Germans.

But there are precious few recognizable Germanic symbols, and they have all been done to death. You've got the Alps, Lederhosen, etc., and sometimes people conflate Swiss and German things when they name Hofs. But some proprietors — an exceedingly miniscule percentage of the total — have tapped into far and away the biggest Germany-related association there is (not just in Korea, but around the world): World War II.

The Hitler Hof is inexcusable and the proprietors have gotten pressure from all sides to change names or close down. Himmler just as much.

But if someone says, "Well, hey, here's this guy that was a admired even by the Allies, he refused to kill Jews despite orders, he treated Allied prisoners well, the Americans and Brits made a movie depicting him positively just six years after the war was over, and the guy died because he was implicated in a plot to kill Hitler... THAT is the guy I'll use as the Germany association for my beer hall." ... and that guy still gets booed and ridiculed by people who (like Kim Jayoung) who think Rommel was someone much worse (an infamous SS officer) just because he was a WWII-era German officers.

Who, then, is in the wrong?

Before I wrote up a piece bashing the guy (and I'm directing this at Ms Kim, not you, Brian), I'd make an attempt to talk with the owner and figure out what it's all about. All I've seen is the outside picture. I don't know what's inside. Maybe there's a statue of Pope Pius XII fellating der Führer, along with lots of other pro-Hitler paraphernalia.

When I was a teenager in Seoul I was in a restaurant full of Nazi paraphernalia. Me and my friends were shocked, which was why we went in. Nazi stuff all over the place: it was designed to look like a Nazi-era restaurant in France. The owner told us he liked the smart look of Nazi stuff (and to be fair, the Nazis were going for that kind of thing) but he didn't want something praising the Nazis, because he knew they did a lot of bad stuff. His restaurant bar was called "Resistance," which was in honor of the French Resistance.

Still a head scratcher to me, but I certainly got a different story (and a plausible one) than if I'd just walked by or inside and saw the swastikas.

Anonymous said...

In one of Kushibo's many rants (very gracious of you Brian to allow all of us use of this space), "I'm saying that because I think that the true nature of this bizarre disconnect from modern societal norms may have roots in some sort of denial-laden hearkening back to an idealized past. Not sure. Anyway, understanding this will only occur if it's looked at according to what ties it in with the other socioculturally and historically similar countries (i.e., Taiwan and Japan) that also have this weirdness going on within their borders."


‘I believe he may be right.‘

To a foreigner living here, it’s strange that most people in the South can ignore the elephant in the room all the time (the North). We do see that Japan is an easy and deserved source of anger, but that happened years before the latest betrayal by their own blood (the Korean War), and Japan of today is no longer the Japan of then while the North is. So, shouldn’t South Koreans be more ANGRY, or just as angry, that their own "blood" tried to drain it from their bodies? It doesn’t make sense to this foreigner, especially since the tension and armies are still locked in a Mexican standoff. You can actually sort of compare the North as being along the lines of Nazis while the South was Jewish, Catholic, or Gypsy (not really of pure blood after all). But...I forgot...it's the selective race blinders that can overlook the annihilation that their own blood, and actual, brothers had planned for them.

These thoughts seem incomprehensible to most modern Southern minds (those under 50), as the disconnect continues to widen thanks to time, technological advances, and a subversive schooling, that the North can’t be as bad as Japan, the U.S., or China, but the oldest generation still remembers the bloodletting, devastation, cold, and hunger. I see them out tilling in any plot of dirt they can find as they still worry about the North and the hunger they once felt in the pits of their stomachs. I bet many of them think the same of Rommel as they do the millions of Northern peon soldiers who haven't the strength or courage to remove the lunatic at the top over the years. They all equally share in the horrors of murderous regimes.

Can you imagine the outrage that would go up if someone opened a “Kim Il-sung Jazz Bar” in L.A.? I’m not even talking about the outrage from Korean-Americans, but from those American men who fought, and lost their “brothers,” in that terrible war.

In closing, I think it’s the lack of closure to the Korean War that keeps Japan at the top of everyone’s hate list, because those in power here are really worried about upsetting the dear little leader and having to deal with 22 million hungry and impoverished refugees suddenly trying to reunite with their loved ones—more for survival than anything else. It’s a frightening situation that if forestalled, can be the next generation’s problem.

Sorry for the awkwardness in my paragraphs, but I’m in a hurry as life is beckons. Thanks again for the use of your blog, Kushibo.

John from Daejeon

Unknown said...

I use to live in Masan and there was a Nazi themed PC bang there.

nb said...

"Ask a Korean to justify why they think it is human to sell beer with Nazi imagery (or cosmetics) and you will get a dismissive wave of the hand.

Oh, yeah? Explain this."

Non sequitor.

"Or have a Japanese explain Nazi bars. Or a Taiwanese, or a Hong Konger."

Your Korean apologist tendencies are showing; please tuck them in.

"It's about trying to find yet another reason to bash Korea, show how backward them Koreans are, right?"

Why necesarily is this an attempt to show Korea's (Korean's) backwardness? There are examples aplenty. Using a falcy of logic to deflect criticism? It is beneath you, sir.

No one should use Nazi imagery even FUCKING again. As a matter of fact, it is illegal in many countries as is holocost (sp) denial.

But what do you expect from people who worship assassins and put them on paper money.

I am sure they have no souls, these "people."

Michael Foster said...

"The Korean heart seethes at what it sees as injustice." I guess it doesn't see the Holocaust as an injustice, then!

Another reason why I should leave Mokpo. Not that the rest of Korea is any better...

Anonymous said...

How about a Hirohito's Bar, Yamashita's Bar or a Tojo's Bar in USA or other countries? What will the Koreans feel about it?

Douglas said...

Rommel an SS officer? Well, that's just idiotic. He was a professional soldier, an outstanding Wehrmacht officer and, while he may have been a party member, there is no reason to believe he was an ardent Nazi.

BTW, the irony of seeing a Nazi-jazz bar is just too much. The Nazi's thought that jazz was decadent American-negro music, unfit for good Aryans to listen to and cause for a visit by the local Gestapo. Just another indication of the depth of provincial Korean's ignorance of all things outside of this little well these frogs reside in.

Anonymous said...

Irwin Rommel was not in the SS. He was in the Afrikakorps. From an opinion editorial in the New York Times: "Field Marshal Erwin Rommel was not a "prominent Nazi" as stated by Phil-Heiner Randermann in "Would Germans Elect Hitler's Daughter?" (letter, April 12). Winston Churchill referred to him in the House of Commons as a "great soldier," and he did not join the Nazi Party. According to the 1993 biography "Knight's Cross," by David Fraser, a former senior British Army officer: "To [ Rommel ] Hitler was his Fuhrer and Commander-in-Chief, who had restored the morale of the German people and their army, and who had presided over the fortunes of both in a brilliantly successful campaign [ against France and Britain ] waged in the course of a just war, with every hope of culminating in an enduring peace. It was as simple as that. . . . Rommel had no knowledge of Hitler's wider intentions." In October 1944, on the order of Hitler, who suspected Rommel of plotting against him, Rommel was given the choice of facing a People's Court or committing suicide. He chose to take the fatal dose of poison supplied to him.

Upon hearing about his death, Sir Winston Churchill said "He also deserves our respect, because, although a loyal German soldier, he came to hate Hitler and all his works, and took part in the conspiracy to rescue Germany by displacing the maniac and tyrant. For this, he paid the forfeit of his life. In the sombre wars of modern democracy, there is little place for chivalry."

Brian said...

Well, kushibo, you might be interested to know that 26 of the 29 people who voted in the poll I put on Daves said the Rommel Hof is harmless.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=151716

Minue622 said...

Brian/
Interesting posts and comments.

If you speak korean, you might be interested in a post named ' Auschwitz camp, facts of it and myths made by allied nations' at SkepticalLeft.Com in which the writer (whose screen name is '세계사광') argued that Auschwitz massacre has been exaggerated, in terms of the number of the victims and how they got killed, others' comments on it.

His allegedly revisionist arguments brought about rather long disputes, and other related posts, and you will see how koreans would respond to pro-hitler or Pro-nazi arguments, regardless they are wrong or not.

Minue622 said...

The url of the orginal post is here: http://www.skepticalleft.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=01_main_square&wr_id=49943&page=2

Unknown said...

Im a Jew, and luckily I can speak enough Korean to participate in these Korean/Jew comments when they come up, rarely. 6000000 Jews died in the holocaust, 100000 Koreans died during the occupation, and they didnt necessarily die from the Japanese.

Im not offended, I know Koreans are taught to look inward, and then they can spout off whatever they want verbally, because theyre supposed to be agreed with. I do point out that I am a Jew, and I think Koreans dont have a real relation to Jews. Main point is how many Koreans use their money. I may be a stereotypical Levite, but Koreans generally waste money. Self made rich here arent so many, family money is more prevelant, I find... etc

anyway :)