Thursday, November 26, 2009

Death threat against ATEK president.

According to the Korea Herald, the President of the Association for Teachers of English in Korea [ATEK] was emailed a death threat:
The president of the Association of English Teachers in Korea received an anonymous e-mail threatening his death and accusing him of committing sex crimes after rumors of a former member of ATEK were posted online.

Members of ATEK received two e-mails, one containing threats and another with an image apparently taken from a Naver Cafe post, but with ATEK president Greg Dolezal's picture added.

The police are currently cooperating:
Dolezal said he was taking all legal steps possible. Gimhae Police Department is investigating the case, and Dolezal said he was happy with how they were dealing with the situation.

"The detectives there and the foreign affairs liaison have been very cooperative and seem extremely keen to do something about it," he said.

There's more on this story from Gusts of Popular Feeling.

Here's the text of the email, via a post on the Anti-English Spectrum website:
He has AIDS!!!
Your fucking president of ATEK is fucking sexual crimer.

I attached the picture, your guys should see the real happening.

Go Back Fucking your country!!! Get the hell, Fucking stupid english spectrum in korea!!

I have organized the KEK (Kill White in Korea).
This group of people is about 200 in anywhere in Korea.

We will gonna start to kill and hit White fucking dik english spectrum from this Christmas.

Don't make a fuss in there, just get out.

if you do not wanna listen this warning, our group will throw acid vitriol any white cheese.

That's enough to spoil in Korea.

On that post the Anti-English Spectrum is making clear it didn't send the mail to Dolezal. It's from a samkunts1@gmail.com, judging from this post. I wonder, given the enthusiastic cursing, the over-the-top horrible English, and the gmail address, whether this is somebody trolling to try and attract negative attention to the group, or if this is just an extreme version of what the group has already admitted to doing. Not that people need any more reason to dislike the hate-group Anti-English Spectrum, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. From the Herald again:
The AES cafe manager would not provide The Korea Herald directly with a statement on the death threat e-mail. "However strained relations may be, we need to maintain basic human decency," the notice on the AES website read. "We cannot forgive the person who sent this threatening mail. If we find that person we will definitely report them to the police," it added further down.

The person that issued the death threat sent an apology -- after the notice was posted on AES -- but remained anonymous and said he was motivated by some English teachers' "immoral behaviors."

"He continued to use hateful language," said Dolezal of the apology. "He alluded to the fact that he's not going to stop."

I last wrote about the Anti-English Spectrum a couple days ago---and they know I wrote about them, since I get hits to my blog from the cafe---so check these posts for some background:
* "Korea Herald on Anti-English Spectrum."
* "Korea Times continues to give attention to hate group."

And be sure to check some of the extensive posts Gusts of Popular Feeling has written:
* "Criticism of Anti-English Spectrum in the Korea Herald"
* "The achievements of Anti-English Spectrum"
* "How to make foreign English teachers an AIDS threat in 5 easy steps"
* "The 'undisclosed crimes' of potential child molesting foreign English teachers"
* "Puff piece about Anti-English Spectrum"

62 comments:

Todd said...

Bravo Brian. I applaud your efforts in spreading the word and contributing an unbiased and clear perception of what this group (AES) really is.

3gyupsal said...

Yeah it does look a bit like a troll.

Mark said...

And, of course, NAVER will think that's OK, too, since the perpetrator is a Korean and was simply displaying righteous anger against a foreign devil in the name of the Korean people.

If, however, an English teacher had made a similar threat to an AES member, Korea's newspapers would have had a field day, the immigration office would have come up with further restrictions and propaganda, and populist Korean lawmakers would compete with each other to stir the shit with more untrue statements and warped statistics about English teachers.

Stephannie said...

if this was done by an expat, it would have to be someone who has already infilterated the AES site & become a member.

The fact the perp is using gmail means nothing, as google is readily available in Korean; I'd estimate 20% of my uni students use google now that naver censors the web for them.

while in the spirit of balanced journalism the thought an expat is stirring the stew should be considered, but in light of their need for a better then rudimentary understanding of Korean to navigate the AES site and not attract notice as a non-Korean.

Greg's not my #1 fav guy, but I damn sure dont want to see acid in his face either. Perhaps personal safety measures should be considered.

ZenKimchi said...

Assuming that the emailer is Korean, man, it's one thing to have embarrassingly bad English, but even my first year students would scratch their heads over how "KEK" can mean "Kill White in Korea."

What is it with hate groups and "K"?

kushibo said...

I wonder, given the enthusiastic cursing, the over-the-top horrible English, and the gmail address, whether this is somebody trolling to try and attract negative attention to the group, or if this is just an extreme version of what the group has already admitted to doing.

If the person in question left posts in Korean, we might be able to discern if this is a troll. I'm not entirely convinced, but this stinks of shit-stirring, à la the Salvador Smith case, and it has the potential to backfire in such a way as to make AES look like they are victims of out-of-control 외국인 강사.

Stevie Bee said...

What was the Salvador Smith case, Kushibo? I know you mentioned it on KoreaBeat, but do you have some further info?

kushibo said...

Salvador Smith was a bit of apocrypha from the late 1990s. In a similar "please help me find out information" or "please help get the word out" kind of way, the story went that he was supposedly killed by his hagwon owner after pleas for help to the US embassy for assistance went ignored.

His story resurfaced at Popular Gusts as "Beau Smith." This is what I wrote there:

When I first saw the your title on my blog, I thought you might be talking about "Salvador Smith," a man whose story is the same as "Beau Smith."

The story of Salvador Smith was discussed on lists like Kexpat and other places, but there was a notable lack of outside information about him other than what was going around through emails. The US embassy (I checked through some people) didn't seem to know anything about him.

The story, if I recall, was that he was seen climbing out onto a construction crane and even the police had stopped him and asked what he was doing, to which he indicated he wanted to see the view.

The rest of the description, about the evil boss, was part of the story. The idea behind the emails was that what seemed like a suicide was at best a suicide sparked by an evil boss or a murder covered up by an evil boss who'd gotten the police to say what they said.

That is, if the story is true in the first place (and if it is, my apologies for the cynical speculation).


In the past I have mentioned it in other relevant places myself, partly because old-timers (i.e., pre-economic crisis... that other economic crisis) might remember.

If this or the 3:30 a.m. Itaewon attempted gang rape are in anyway trolls' attempts to stir up shit, they... they... I don't know what to say after this. If anybody is doing that, it's very, very bad for the foreign community.

Ryan.G said...

kushibo, I agree with your views. While it's a noble effort to get rid of AES, doing it the wrong way can certainly lead to support for the group. I urge any readers of Brian's blog that in the situation of foreigners in Korea, you can't fight fire with fire. We have do do things the squeaky clean way.

Stevie Bee said...

Thanks, K.

Alain said...

It saddens me to hear things like this. It's seems to me, sometimes that Koreans never want to move in a forward and progressive matter. It's as though they prefer to continue to live in a close-minded country. Don't let the flashy new extrior of Korea fool you, because in the end it's still no different now than it probably was 70, 100, 200 years ago.

kushibo said...

Alain wrote:
It saddens me to hear things like this. It's seems to me, sometimes that Koreans never want to move in a forward and progressive matter. It's as though they prefer to continue to live in a close-minded country.

Huh? If this is not the work of some shit-stirring troll, why is it an indictment of Koreans as a whole? Even AES condemned it.

If it turned out to be an NSET shit-stirrer, would it be fair or appropriate to indict you or NSETs as a whole?

Don't let the flashy new extrior of Korea fool you, because in the end it's still no different now than it probably was 70, 100, 200 years ago.

Thanks for the insight, newcomer. If you'd been here beyond, say, two months, you might get a feel for how rapidly attitudes and behaviors do change in South Korea.

kushibo said...

I apologize if I was overly harsh to Alain. I just think the unfocused blame of all in some group because of the actions of one or a handful is counterproductive and even harmful. If you spend your time in Korea with that kind of thinking as your dominant thought process, you will be miserable.

Moreover, it's the same kind of behavior and thinking that foreign residents are right to complain about when it's directed at them by the Koreans who do the same.

fattycat said...

"We will gonna start to kill and hit White fucking dik english spectrum from this Christmas."

Troll or no troll this line worries me cause it might give some psycho ideas

LadyE said...

Troll or not, he's getting the attention that he wants. The majority of Koreans have no issue with foreigners. Those that do take it to the extreme.

We're living in a collective culture here. It's very easy to get the group "riled up." The group that sees all foreigners as "sex crazed drug addicts" are probably not going to change their too anytime soon.

Like someone else said, we have react to this situation without letting our emotions take over. Hard to do, but necessary.

We all need to be a little more watchful right now. One crazy person in a crowd can do a lot of damage.

Stevie Bee said...

Kushibo spake: "I apologize if I was overly harsh to Alain. I just think the unfocused blame of all in some group because of the actions of one or a handful is counterproductive and even harmful. If you spend your time in Korea with that kind of thinking as your dominant thought process, you will be miserable."

I don't think you were overly harsh. I too get sick to fuck of self-righteous know-nothings who come out with shit like, 'Korea is still living in the Middle Ages'. It's complete horseshit. Any passing familiarity with recent history would quickly illustrate the pace and nature of social and cultural change here. It just shows how keen some people are to hammer on vague, knee-jerk diagnoses to any part of any culture that doesn't immediately conform to their own narrow view of the world.

In fact, now that I've had a moment to reflect on it, I'd say, Kushibo, that you were not nearly harsh enough. Have at him again, why don't you?

Brian said...

Kushibo, you're right, and Alain, you're out of line. Take that kind of garbage some place else.

kushibo said...

Stevie Bee wrote:
In fact, now that I've had a moment to reflect on it, I'd say, Kushibo, that you were not nearly harsh enough. Have at him again, why don't you?

Nah. I got my point across. I'd rather have Alain ruminate on what I wrote rather than feel like I'm attacking him. I participate in these blogs to learn something and occasionally challenge my own views, offer insight or an unaired but valid opinion, and just in general look for a way we can all strive to make our own world (and the world of those around us) a little better.

Besides, it's Thanksgiving.

Alain apparently started a blog two months ago and sounded really excited about his new place and his new work. His comment today sounds like the diametric opposite of that sentiment. How did he get to that point? Was he screwed over by one or more Koreans? Did he take too much to heart the us-versus-them sentiment of, say, Dave's ESL Cafe? Is he reading too much about the worst excesses of Koreans on the K-blogs and has thus internalized an inappropriately negative view of his surroundings? Or some combination of this or something else I haven't thought of?

No, I'd rather just offer the advice that I did and let Alain think about that. If what I'm saying is valid, then maybe it'll make a difference. There's no need to take a second swipe at him.

Besides, it's Thanksgiving.

brent said...

Brian, I don't see how Alain is out of line. Maybe his idea or comment is inaccurate or just wrong but not out of line.

Matt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

The more I think about it, the more I agree with Kushibo. This sounds like the work of one random dickbag. He doesn't not speak for all Koreans and all Koreans don't deserve to be lumped in with this knob goblin. Much like all teachers don't deserve to be lumped in with the supposed "illegal teachers."

Is it just me or does 99.9% of the bullshit nonsense that goes on in Korea occur online? Rarely does this stuff work its way into RL. Turn of the computer and take a stroll down the block. That being said, I really hope the cops catch this guy quickly.

Stephannie said...

should't this discussion be focused on the issue at hand? ie death threats, ATEK, acid & expat safety? or has Brian's become like Dave's? hijack the thread to avoid dealing with the issues?

Stevie Bee said...

I thought the discussion had developed very organically, as it happens. But if you prefer, we could all go back to speculating on something of which none of us know any precise details and then use it to jump to a variety of negative conclusions, if that's what you'd prefer.

burndog said...

There can be no doubt that AES contributes to this sort of thing. Even looking at this paragraph from the article..."The first AES cafe post used images from the May allegations, but did not identify anyone. It said that the person had been a representative of a foreign teachers group who said AIDS and drug tests on foreign teachers were discriminatory, and identified him as the first leader of a group that represents foreign teachers. It said that person had had sex with children and had AIDS -- much more severe accusations than those that had been raised in May against the former ATEK member."

I assume that if I was a member of AES and already hated foreign teachers...if I suddenly heard that one of them had AIDS and was having sex with children...I'd be angry. Really angry. Angry enough to fire of an email...or worse. AES have to take responsibility for the crap on their site.

Stephannie said...

if negative conclusions = safety awareness, then yes, I would prefer that.

a coursery news research reveals that using acid as a weapons is faily common in Korea (as well as other parts of the world where guns are prohibited)

Acid is also easy to get for non-work related perposes by the unemployed and ex-convicts.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/08/117_30157.html
"The 10 people ― unemployed or ex-convicts ... named ``hot-blooded people,''...filled 20 bottles with hydrochloric acid of 35-percent concentration and threw 10 of them "

easy to purchase and dilute

methods of delivery:
squirt guns
glass bottles
powder in envelopes
pressure washers

all easily accessible methods and easy to use in a crowd then blend back in the crowd and walk away.

here's a list of links: one dating back to Dec 4 2003.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2009/01/200912043919100822.html
"spraying acid at officers and passers-by."

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/01/22/2003434356
"Police...confiscated 150 firebombs, 40 bottles of hydrochloric acid, 1,000 bricks and 700 balls to be used as ammunition for slingshots."

Methodology of throwing acid
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2008/03/04/2003403977

"100 brown envelopes containing a white powder and bottles of butyric acid from their own vessel onto the Japanese whaler Nisshin Maru, government officials said.
Butyric acid is liquid or a white powder that stings the eyes"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/EL04Dg01.html

"throwing Molotov cocktails and acid-filled bottles at construction workers ... Once protesters had crossed a certain line, government repression - often brutal - left no doubt as to where power ultimately rested. But there has been a marked change in South Korean society. Apart from large protests and demonstrations, individuals are becoming more brazen in their defiance of the law. Corruption, graft and general malfeasance, both within and outside the nation뭩 judiciary, has become commonplace. And with so many law breakers, including the lawmakers themselves, the efficacy of the law is now in doubt. "

who will pay bloodmoney & the 10-20% commission to police when the perp is in a crowd?

http://www.malaysianews.net/story/376612

"even shooting acid from squirt guns at police"


this is a real possibility and it would be wise to practice environmental awareness and personal safety over the holidays.

Stevie Bee said...

Thank you for your 'coursery' survey, but I hope you'll understand if I'm not on constant guard for perfidious Korean assailants bearing water pistols. Now, or even ever.

kushibo said...

Stephannie wrote:
easy to purchase and dilute

methods of delivery:
squirt guns
glass bottles
powder in envelopes
pressure washers


On the off chance that this lonely gunman didn't think of these things, do you think it's wise or prudent to go listing various ways that this person of whom you're supposedly afraid can go and pull off his/her attack?

Shouldn't "This should be taken seriously!" be sufficient? You're attempt to lay out all the ways this attack could come off is not convincing me that the threat is real, but instead is making me get a Bruce Ivins vibe from you.

Brian said...

Yes, let's stick to the topic at hand, which I think we've done pretty well.

Brent, well, maybe not out of line, but I don't agree with his point. Sure, discrimination against foreigners has gone on as long as there have been foreigners---in Korea and everywhere else---and maybe in some respects foreigners are still subject to the same biases common a century ago. But let's not look down our noses on Korea---which has done a lot of things right, not only for itself but also for foreigners---based on the comments of a guy who may or may not even exist, and who may or may not have two hundred or even two followers.

I think the next thing to do is just wait and see what comes out from ATEK. Going off what was posted on AES, I don't think it's conclusive either way that this is (a) an AES member, or (b) a disturbed Korean, or (c) a disturbed Korean with some pull, or (d) another foreigner doing this to discredit both ATEK and AES.

Stephannie, I think you'll understand if I don't like being compared to Dave's. I think I've done a pretty good job of cultivating a healthy comment section, and putting a stop to off-topic posts and flaming. I'll leave it at that for now.

Korean Rum Diary said...

Pah, I've been getting e-mails like that ever since I started blogging. It means you're doing a good job.

Stephannie said...

@Brian, my apologies, the dave comment did hit below the ethics belt and was uncalled for and inappropiate.

@kushibo - I doubt that anyone deranged enough to ferment a diabolical plan to spray acid on whities across korea, even if they do start with Greg, would be reading my comments to learn how to carry out their evil deeds. And if there is a lone acid sprayer out there, they will probably spend more than the 40 minutes searching and probably in hangul rather than English. Besides, the point was to demonstate how easy it is to the expats reading (and logically, relatively possible), not to the Korean population as they already know about this tactic. And as far as your Burl Ivins vagueness - whatever dude - that crappola code means nothing to the 'newbies' without custard fillings.

kushibo said...

From the original letter:
I have organized the KEK (Kill White in Korea).
This group of people is about 200 in anywhere in Korea.


Stephannie mentioning "whities" made me go back to the original letter. It's actually a bit odd that an angry Korean writing this would refer to Whites/whitey, when the Korean-language vernacular of Korean xenophobes is usually something related to foreigners.

Conflating 외국인/외국놈 or some such with "whitey" is typically a White person's construct. I always found it odd when Anglophones referred to Korean xenophobia as hating whitey (can't find one of the links where I said as much).

I won't get into the details of that, but in a nutshell it means that the reference to whites and not foreigners suggests all the more that this was not written by a native Korean.

kushibo said...

Stephannie wrote:
And as far as your Burl Ivins vagueness - whatever dude - that crappola code

Crappola or not, what "code" is it? The Bruce Ivins reference was pretty clear: He was one of the scientists involved with tracking down the anthrax killer in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks and it turned out he had been the guilty one all along. Even if one doesn't remember the name, Google is right up there in the menu bar.

Though I don't think it's a slam dunk case, if I had to bet money on it I'd say that this is the work of an Anglophone trying to stir up some sh¡t and/or discredit one or more organizations (especially AES and possibly ATEK, or ATEK's rivals). Seeing who is making a big deal out of this in some way may be a clue.

means nothing to the 'newbies' without custard fillings.

I don't get your reference. It seems you're referring to me as a twinkie, as in Americanized kyopo or a homosexual gay, but I can't imagine that to be the case, since neither situation would have any bearing on what I'm saying.

Stephannie said...

whitey may not be common to Korean vocab, but it is certainly common to more than "white" venacular. Being from the deep south, I've heard it from many colored mouths over the years.

Bruce Burl it's still whatever ~ seeing as how anyone posting on Naver has to have a real id linked to their username their identity can be traced.

Does the Naver portal even take foreigner's ARC numbers to register? maybe you know all about it Kushibo since you're so quick to point vibes at people.

If it were a foreinger, I doubt AES would refrain from comment to the press about the incident.

and thanks for thinking my Korean would be good enough to pull of being a mole on AES, it's a twisted compliment but a compliment all the same.


oh... custard = all rush no substance = empty calorie food, failure to feed the brain with substanitive thoughts...

Stephannie said...

the letter states only "white" not white + plural forms or white + "y" diminuative.

if you're going to be a forensic linguist in your efforts to track the emailer Kushibo, then pay attention to details like this.

and as always, my messages are concerned with public safety and raising awareness of human rights issues, not tracking down the culprits, not because I dont care, I'm more pragmatic with my energy focus - I just lack faith that the offender will be punished unless foreign.

Funny now that Kushyboo made clear the Bruce reference, the whole implication does seem to vibe with his/her own method of operations. hmmmmm

ROK Hound said...

I wonder, given the enthusiastic cursing, the over-the-top horrible English, and the gmail address, whether this is somebody trolling to try and attract negative attention to the group, or if this is just an extreme version of what the group has already admitted to doing.

Go read the comments left on our buddy the friendly neighbourhood Haebonchong "degree mill" (eye roll)... many of the things left there (apparently by Koreans) sound just as over-the-top with their enthusiastic cursing.

matt said...

Considering the use of the term 백빠 (white groupie) by AESers and their inundating a 백인남자 naver cafe with nasty comments and forcing the women there to leave and start a new cafe, I don't think the use of 'white' is evidence that it was not a Korean who wrote it.

kushibo said...

Stephannie wrote:
whitey may not be common to Korean vocab, but it is certainly common to more than "white" venacular. Being from the deep south, I've heard it from many colored mouths over the years.

I'm from Compton, Stephannie, so yeah, I've heard it, too.

But whether Blacks on the US Mainland refer to "whitey" or not, it has no bearing on whether it would be common for a Korean xenophobe to use it.

In general, it is Whites in Korea that have labeled Korean xenophobia as "hating whitey," not Koreans who have done this. While it is not impossible that a Korean would pick up on this and inexplicably choose "whitey" over "foreigner" to express their outrage, it is much less likely. This alone stinks of it being a non-AESolian.

Bruce Burl it's still whatever ~ seeing as how anyone posting on Naver has to have a real id linked to their username their identity can be traced.

This means nothing. One of the biggest problems with the real-name ID system is how easy it is for someone to use another's ID number without verification, even that of total strangers.

Does the Naver portal even take foreigner's ARC numbers to register? maybe you know all about it Kushibo since you're so quick to point vibes at people.

That's right. And I cleverly forced you to list all the ways that someone might use acid to attack someone so I could point out the anthrax attacker vibe I got from you. I'm that good at being evil.

But no, I don't know about it.

And I'll take this moment to clarify that no, I'm not accusing you of having been involved in this. All I was trying to say was that someone — not just you but anyone — who is so insistent that it must be an AESolian and couldn't possibly be an anti-AES foreigner and shows what these Koreans are really up to, seems like someone to watch out for. Because this is by no means a slam-dunk case that an AESolian did it.

If it were a foreinger, I doubt AES would refrain from comment to the press about the incident.

I'm not sure if AES knows one way or the other. And they did comment to the press about this (didn't they?), so if I'm right about that, then I'm not sure what you're getting at.

and thanks for thinking my Korean would be good enough to pull of being a mole on AES,

Well, you claimed you know Korean well enough to know that people are constantly insulting you.

it's a twisted compliment but a compliment all the same.

Again, I don't know what you're getting at with me thinking you might possess good enough Korean skills to plant such a message being a "twisted compliment," but I'll just defer to your ability to see insult and disparagement wherever you go.

oh... custard = all rush no substance = empty calorie food, failure to feed the brain with substanitive thoughts...

Well, that's me to a tee. At least you weren't being homophobic or racist, so good on you (I mean that).

kushibo said...

matt wrote:
Considering the use of the term 백빠 (white groupie) by AESers and their inundating a 백인남자 naver cafe with nasty comments and forcing the women there to leave and start a new cafe, I don't think the use of 'white' is evidence that it was not a Korean who wrote it.

Is the use of 백빠 common? And there's a "백인남자" Naver cafe? What do they talk about?

Anyway, since you peruse their site more than I, I'll defer to your judgement that couching their xenophobia in terms of Korean-versus-White is the norm there, and I provisionally retract my claim that use of "white" over "foreign" in the death threat is an indicator of the possibility that it was written by a White person.

But I do stand by my observation that Korean xenophobia against Anglophones is frequently labeled as something along the lines of "hating Whitey" by Whites in Korea, which seems to me an indicator that such Whites seem themselves as the default Americans or Canadians or whatever.

matt said...

I'm not sure how common the use of the term 백빠 is - it turns up on AES a fair bit.

A search for "백인놈" turned up 82 hits, and "백빠" turned up 43 hits. Just for fun, "쓰레기" turned up over 150, and you can be sure that's not talking about household garbage (such as, just two days ago, "쓰레기같은 외국인들", or 'foreigners who are like garbage'). Christ, why didn't immigration invite them to policy meetings sooner?

Actually, I've been meaning to blog about the white guys cafe. In 2005, a post at AES pointed out the existence of the cafe (mostly women posting beefcake photos of white men, I think - only some posts are accessible), and a few other links followed. By October 2005, there were so many poisonous posts there lashing out at the women and disparaging white men (such as "90% of white men in Korea are human garbage") that the women fled to a new cafe, though that didn't stop these guys from posting stuff against white men over the years (including a 백빠 version of the 'brain map' of foreign teachers that was shown in the Korea Herald article the other day, which showed up on the white guys site a few weeks after the original showed up at AES). There are enough coincidences to suggest members of AES were among those desecrating the cafe, but it could only be proven by checking IDs and IPs.

The site is here:
http://cafe.naver.com/kissme100456

Oddly enough, 'white girl' sites appear to have been left unmolested.

B_Wagner said...

I'd forgotten about the "I Love White Girl" site on Naver with the Russian school girls - a real classic.
http://cafe.naver.com/ilovewhitegirl

Then there's the more prosaic Daum site with beaming Korean guys lip-locked with white chicks - still a good one though.
http://cafe.daum.net/ilovewhitegirl

But the "Meet White" site with over 14,000 members is still my favorite. Fantastic "Tips & Infos" section.
http://cafe.daum.net/meetwhite

"Meet White" fighting! I sincerely hope you guys are able to land yourselves the white girl of your dreams. For my part I promise not to organize a vigilante group and track you to your home and record your address for dating "our" women. ^^

Peter said...

I hope that the person who sent this threat is simply one idiot with two much time on his hands. But regardless, the Korean authorities (and Naver) are doing Korea no favours by allowing AES to continue to have a forum to spread both its racial hatred, and its disgusting disrespect for women. Unlike Alain, I believe that the vast majority of Koreans are above this nonsense ... which is precisely why AES spreads lies about foreigners infecting Korean children with AIDS, in an attempt to sway otherwise reasonable people to their "cause".

Stephannie said...

Classic posts guys! Awesome digging up the white references and sites!

Thanks for adding depth and breadth ~ after taking some time off ~ am back with some prudent advice from a friend in the military:

{quote} What I always told my soldiers when in Korea is that the best way to stay out of trouble is to avoid places where it would most likely happen, particularly certain university areas such Hongdae especially at night. Also it is best to avoid areas where ajushis are known to get drunk and stupid. A few years back certain students from the Hongdae area were actively looking to provoke an incidents with GI's after their success with the Shinchon Stabbing Incident. It appears it may be the same thing now with English teachers.

If someone should do something to you it is best to try to get away. Remember you have no right to self defense in Korea. Any blows you land will be used to convict you, not the other person of the crime. It also helps to learn basic Korean when in a confrontation. I was once assaulted by a crazy drunk ajushi out front of Chongmyo and by being able to speak basic Korean a security guard from the shrine ran over and pulled the guy off of me. Without being able to speak basic Korean it puts you at a disadvantage because the authorities only have their word to go by. Also it is best to settle the situation at the scene because if you want to file police reports you may piss off the policeman because then he has to do a lot of extra work for something that happens all the time between Koreans and is usually settled on the spot. {/end quote}

I promised not to invade his privacy by giving out rank & all that -

also - because knowing is half the battle - if one should find themselves a victim of an acid attack, go into the nearest convenience store, make a beeline for the water bottles & just douse yourself down (an alternative would be to carry about a liter of water with you everywhere) after dousing, strip, you must get the acid (whether liquid or powder) off of your body. It only takes seconds for the chemical burns to begin - depending on solution strength.

Of course, you dont have to worry about the calling the cops 'cause if you've just ransacked the waterbottles & stripped in the store, it's very possible the clerk will have done that for you.

a bit cheeky, but again, if you seem confident and prepared and someone is a nutter nearby, they are less likely to pick you.

Perhaps we could have labels made, acid neutralizer/산성 중화제, to fit 1.5 liter sized bottles with strap caps - we would be protecting ourselves and raising awareness that AES/nutter threats do incite a theater of fear and can be considered 1) serious 2) an act of terrorism 3) and we're are not going to be quiet about it

it's a lot more peaceful than pickets or sit ins somewhere...just a water bottle...


(cap strap = a cap with a loop for a strap to go through, the other end of the strap attachs to a end cap for the bottom of the bottle, makes it easy to sling over the shoulder like a camel bag for hikes - not being rude, just in case ya'll didn't know, haven't seen any here but easy enough to improvise one)

kushibo said...

Ben Wagner wrote:
"Meet White" fighting! I sincerely hope you guys are able to land yourselves the white girl of your dreams. For my part I promise not to organize a vigilante group and track you to your home and record your address for dating "our" women. ^^

Are the people of "Meet White" and "I Love White Girl" are also in AES?

kushibo said...

Stephannie's friend wrote:
Also it is best to avoid areas where ajushis are known to get drunk and stupid. A few years back certain students from the Hongdae area were actively looking to provoke an incidents with GI's after their success with the Shinchon Stabbing Incident. It appears it may be the same thing now with English teachers.

They "provoked" the GIs to go to Shinchon which is off limits. They "provoked" the guy to bring a knife with him when he went out drinking. And then they "provoked" him to hold it to someone's neck.

That's some mighty skilled provokin'.

B_Wagner said...

Are the people of "Meet White" and "I Love White Girl" are also in AES?

That would be weird, huh? I really have no idea, but I wouldn't suppose so.

Brian said...

matt, I see a lot of AES posts aren't viewable by the public. (I found the text of the email via a Naver search). Is there a possible way to view other posts on the cafe, or are they password protected? I remember you said something about changing the URLs, but I tried that and couldn't get in.

Stephannie said...

received this email via a friend from the gyeonggi area:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gyeonggi ATEK gyeonggi.pma@gmail.com
Date: 2009/11/28
Subject: Gyeonggi ATEK informational: The Anti-English Spectrum
To:



Note: Please undersand that I am providing this to you from my perspective to the best of my ability. I have included links to newspaper articles on the information presented her. I highly encourage you to read them for yourself to avoid any misunderstanding in this regard.

We are sending this mail to bring to our members attention information about an anti-english teacher group operating in Korea. This group goes by the name of Anti-English Spectrum. This group has been in existence for some time now and has been noted for various activities including:

1. Stalking English Teachers. In some cases they have followed a single teacher or group of teachers for up to 3 months months at a time. Their goal is to catch this person(s) in an illegal act. They then contact immigration and have them deported.
2. Maintaining a cafe style forum on Naver.com. On this website they post pictures and other information about teachers they are 'following'.

You can read more about this group in Korean Herald articles here:

Systematically stigmatizing foreign English teachers
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/11/20/200911200005.asp
Blurring line between hate, free speech
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/11/20/200911200006.asp


ATEK considers AES to be a racist hate group. Why? In addition to the above they also place information on their forum about:

1. The foreign teacher plan to spread AIDS to as many Korean women as possible through rape or forced sex.
2. The foreign teacher plan to sexually molest as many children and teenagers in our care as possible.
3. Posters depciting foreign teachers as 'black pigs'.
4. Diagrams of foreign teachers brains portrayed to depict us as sexual predators.

Korea Times article on this here:
English Teachers Fight Naver Over Racial Blog
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/11/117_55532.html

Many would think that a group of this nature would be in a marginalized part of society. In this case that is not true. Here's some examples:

AES:
1. Has received awards from the National Police Service for their work in 'exposing' foreigner teacher crime in Korea.
2. Is invited to high level government meetings with senior members of various ministries.

AES has been proven to provide false statistics about foreign teachers to the government. An example of this is the recent (2007) changes to E-2 visa regulations requiring drug and disease testing.

Stephannie said...

part two:

In early 2007 the head of AES was invited to a high level meeting of leaders in the Immigration office. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss the visa regulations for foreigners. It was at this meeting the AES provided statistics to Immigration purporting to show that 80% of foreigners tested at the Incheon AIDS/HIV testing climic in 2006 were positive. Based on this information the Immigration office enacted the new rules requiring drug and medical testing.

These false 'statistics' are now being used to make the case to the Korean National Assembly to pass a bill creating the legal basis to justify the visa regulations. This time with a twist. AES is now presenting the 'statistics' to national assembly members as being from 2008, same clinic.

The above is news to the clinic in question. They adamantly maintain that they never have or would provide this information to AES. In addition, the clinic wasn't located in incheon in 2008. It moved in 2006.

You can read more about the above and an attempt to get the AES cafe forum shut down in a Korean Herald newspaper article here:
Blurring line between hate and free speech (link also given above)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/archives/result_contents.asp
Naver Rejects Calls For Closing 'Racial' Blog
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/include/print.asp?newsIdx=55811

As you can see in all the above referenced articles this is a 'hot and heavy' issue. ATEK has been involved with it for some time now including supporting the complaint against the visa regulations to the NHRCK earlier this year. In more times this issue has grown a little hot and heavy for us. Recently members of AES have started to send disgusting, threatening, and sometimes xenophobic emails to the more prominent leaders and national leadership of ATEK. This started about a week ago when one of their members sent emails to 10 ATEK associated email addresses containing death threats. Everyone receiving these mails has filed complaints with the police in their local areas hoping to press charges and prosecute the person(s) responsible. We know this is tied to AES because the emails have also appeared in their cafe forum blogs on Naver.com. The blog page has since been taken down.

We are INSTRUCTING all members to do the following:

1. Report any mails of this nature to your Metropolitan and/or Provincial Chairs immediately.
2. File police reports with your local departments and press charges. Depending on your individual situation we may have more insructions for you after you report the incident(s) to us.
3. DO NOT RESPOND. For several reasons: 1.) This is a serious crime in Korea, 2) Responding only hands them ammunition to use against you. Being an illegal act it may also get you deported.

Again, any Gyeonggi PMA members who receive mails of this nature report them to me personally immediately. If you wait I cannot guarantee that we can help you or (if you take the matter into your 'own hands') that we would even try.

Please let me know if anyone has questions or comments on this matter.

John Wurth
Presidet and Chair
Gyeonggi PMA- ATEK

Tony said...

If there are naver cafes called "Meet White" and "I Love White Girl" doesn't that undermine the argument that use of "whites" means that the writer of the threat is unlikely to be Korean? We've got two examples of Koreans using "white" as a category, so...

kushibo said...

Tony wrote:
If there are naver cafes called "Meet White" and "I Love White Girl" doesn't that undermine the argument that use of "whites" means that the writer of the threat is unlikely to be Korean? We've got two examples of Koreans using "white" as a category, so...

Well, I already retracted (provisionally) my claim that use of "white" over "foreign" in the death threat is an indicator of the possibility that it was written by a White person. (See above.)

But the two examples given of using "white" above are positive usages, which puts things on a different plane from the animosity-ridden xenophobia that appears to be the driving force for many members.

Since matt seems to have read a lot of their stuff, maybe he can provide insight into how relatively common the "white" narrative is on the site, but a cursory look at the front page with its various 공지 reveals 14 uses of 외국 (9 specifically for 외국인) but zero uses of 백 or 백인. It seems "foreigner" is the common narrative of AES, whereas "white/whitey" is a common way this issue is discussed in the anglophone K-blogs.

My strong suspicions about the genuineness of this threat do not stem from this whitey-versus-foreigner idea alone. In fact, it's not something that occurred to me until well after my suspicions began. There are certainly other reasons to doubt this threat is really from an AES member.

I'm not the only doubter here, but I do want to say that I don't have any reason to believe, if the threat is not from an AES member, that is is a sham perpetrated by ATEK leadership in any way, lest someone think that I'm suggesting that.

greg said...

Stephanie is right when she says, "If it were a foreinger, I doubt AES would refrain from comment to the press about the incident."

Furthmore, the use of phrases like "get the hell" or "don't make a fuss in there" or "we will gonna start to kill" is far too incorrect for even the most creative troll.

This was written by a Korean. I'm sure of it.

What bothers me is that although the police were friendly they aren't taking this seriously. Naver hasn't censored this hate speech, and the manager of the site won't take it down.

If they truly believe their own disclaimer about my innocence they should just take it down!

I'm not concerned about whether there are 200 violent racists - one is too many. If even one person follows through on this threat is affects all of us and makes Korea a very dangerous place to live.

Thanks Brian for raising awareness.

Tony said...

http://yonguksaram.com/atek-death-threats-a-whodunnit.html

The above provides some pretty compelling (although not altogether conclusive) evidence that it may not be a Korean.

"far too incorrect for even the most creative troll" ? Anyone who has taught ESL for a couple years and has any writing skill at all can write like that.

And Stephannie's name has two n's, Greg.

kushibo said...

Tony, I don't get what the compelling evidence is. He's saying that one could determine some information if they had the email (right?), but he doesn't have the email.

He says the letter was sent from the US but also says that could be spoofed.

At any rate, even though I believe this is likely a hoax, that doesn't diminish the potential threat. If some non-AESer (and even non-Korean) is behind this and is going to such lengths to create trouble, who is to say they wouldn't make good on a minor (or major) physical attack to lend authenticity to the hoax and to stir up trouble?

That is, indeed, the Bruce Ivins model: He piggybacked on the 9/11 attacks to show how vulnerable America was to terrorists using anthrax to terrorize and kill Americans by actually killing Americans with anthrax himself... while making sure it looked like Arabs were behind it.

Brian said...

Tony, there's clearly a conflict of interest with you pointing a finger at him.

Brian said...

Roboseyo put up a little post on this as well:

http://roboseyo.blogspot.com/2009/11/word-on-greg-dolezal-atek-president-and.html

I second what he wrote about going after the emailer on principle. Right or wrong, the police crack down on netizens for their threats, and this case should be no different.

I'll reiterate that I don't believe Greg DIDN'T get an email . . . I just questioned the source of it, whether it was actually a Korean, or another foreigner looking to stir up trouble.

Right now everything is just speculation, so coming down definitively one way or the other is premature.

Brian said...

Here's a comment from Dann Gaymer, ATEK Communications Director, in the Joongang Ilbo today:
***
Gaymer added, “[The e-mail writer] apologized. OK, that’s good that he admitted that he’s wrong. But he shouldn’t have done that in the first place. You can’t take back what has already happened. He’s only apologized because he knows how much trouble he has caused.”
***
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2913245

Yeah, apologies aren't going to cut it. When I was going through my thing with a netizen, I was told by a lawyer with the Gwangju International Center to just accept an apology (even though the apology was made to the GIC, not to me). I eventually had to drop everything in exchange for keeping my job. (My coteacher said that even if I "won"---I wasn't after money, I just wanted the guy punished according to the law---Koreans wouldn't be sympathetic to me.)

I hope ATEK people are currently not in the same position as I was. And I hope they'll meet people interested in pursuing this beyond an apology.

kushibo said...

Tony wrote:
"far too incorrect for even the most creative troll" ? Anyone who has taught ESL for a couple years and has any writing skill at all can write like that.

So the original death threat was in (poor) English. The apology was also in English. Has anything ever been written in Korean with the same userid on AES through which the original death threat was written?

If that userid has produced nothing in Korean, but only in "poor English," I would submit that it's far harder to fake native-level Korean than it is to fake "poor English."

Can someone clarify this for me, por favor?

Tony said...

Brian, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I'm saying there is enough circumstantial evidence in every direction (and not enough hard evidence in ANY direction, thus far) to say that we can't say whether or not this person is Korean or not. Yates (on his blog) presents evidence that the person is likely American. Yet it is written in poor English, which leads some people "to be sure" it is a Korean. I'm saying there isn't enough to be sure of anything at this point. I think anyone who is "sure" of anything at this point is jumping to conclusions.

Tony said...

Sorry, missed this:

Kushibo wrote: Tony, I don't get what the compelling evidence is. He's saying that one could determine some information if they had the email (right?), but he doesn't have the email.

No, he's saying he got the email address and plugged it into facebook: "Here is what I did: * I got the email address from the AES site. * I plugged that address into Facebook. Simple right?"

Unless I'm misunderstanding what he's saying somehow.

kushibo said...

Tony, I got that part, about plugging into Facebook and finding no friends outside the US, including South Korea. That would seem odd for someone purportedly a Korean in Korea, but he holds out the possibility that the gmail address has been spoofed, whatever he means exactly by that.

But there was more to his post than just that. He's saying that if it was spoofed, you might be able to find out information about the IP address from the header info.

But it appears that he himself did not do that. He is saying that ATEK should look at the email they got (the apology, I guess) and see if it was a proxy and then go from there to find the IP.

So he's saying what ATEK could do to narrow this down, not that he himself has done this.

At lest, that's what I think he's saying. I left a comment asking for clarification, but it hasn't even been approved, much less answered.

Mike said...

Kushibo: " I left a comment asking for clarification, but it hasn't even been approved, much less answered."

I got your registration, but no comment. I will try to clarify here:

I do NOT have the original email, so my post is intended as advice to ATEK.

Spoofed means somebody used a different email, yet made it appear as if it came from the one listed on AES. This is pretty simple.

If you send a gmail the usual way (by logging into gmail.com) your ip is hidden. If the ip is hidden, it really was this guy who sent it. That seems strange to me though... the act would appear completely random.

To spoof the email, the common way would be to use an external application and use that to make it appear as if it came from elsewhere. If this was done, there will be a trail contained in the header of the email.

Within the header, a 'real' gmail would say:

Recieved-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of XXXXXXXX@gmail.com designates XY.XY.XY.XY as permitted sender) client-ip=XY.XY.XY.XY;

XXXXXXXX is the gmail server. Gmail masks the original address. The ip XY.XY.XY.XY is a registered gmail server (there are many).

A spoofed mail (or a legitimate mail sent with an external client) would have:

Recieved-SPF: neutral (google.com: AB.AB.AB.AB is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of XXXXXXXX@gmail.com) client-ip=AB.AB.AB.AB;

In this case, AB.AB.AB.AB is the ip address of the PC used to send it. As long as this is not a proxy (unlikely), it take you directly to the PC used to send the email.

kushibo said...

So, did anybody at ATEK follow-up on Mike's line of questioning?

I mean, because if you're going to go on national Canadian radio and suggest that someone at AES really is the one sending death threats, you ought to at least be a little sure about it.