and wearing outrageous hats, and several chains offer them each year. Last year the most gay-ass one was Baskin Robbins' snowman hat:
As the accompanying commercial says, there's an icecream cake so now it's really Christmas!
Yeah, whatever. Paris Baguette rolled out a Smurf hat:
Extra! Korea previewed the 2009 offerings from Paris Baguette and Baskin Robbins. Here's Kim Tae-hee and Girls' Generation modeling a badger hat, or something:
Baskin Robbins hits you with a penguin hat:
Dunkin Donuts came strong with this bear-ear hat:
Tous Les Jours doesn't understand Christmas:
And Crown Bakery used the most irritating pop group in Korea, Kara, to advertise its Christmas gear:
Of course the other "tradition" of Christmas here is the Christmas cake. You have to reserve them in advance, so if you are interested in buying one you probably already did. I didn't, but if I were going to I'd go for one with an interesting shape. Here are a few from Paris Baguette:
Baskin Robbins has ice cream cakes, including:
Dunkin Donuts has a couple but I'm not sure how to get to the pictures. Tous Les Jours has them as well, though you can't see them close-up; here's one page:
Crown Bakery has a wide selection, ranging from 17,000 won to 35,000 won. Here are a few of the most interesting-looking:
And Krispy Kreme has seasonal donuts for Christmas, just as they did for Halloween:
And just so I don't leave you thinking---and thinking that I think---that all Christmas music coming out of Korea is absolute shit---empty, meaningless shit---here's something from the Festival Handbell Ensemble (페스티벌핸드벨앙상블):
And here's something from back home: a couple choral arrangements of two of my favorite Christmas songs.
They do Christmas right:
Here's Roboseyo talking more about Christmas music, about five people who should make holiday albums and three who definitely shouldn't. He forgot to include the Koreans in my first three clips.
99 comments:
Uh, Brian, how can you be arrogant as to say what is a right "Christmas" celebration and what is not right? It's just relative to what you think and where you are from. There is no right and wrong way to celebrate Christmas as long as people feel happy about the holidays and have a chance to enjoy the time with friends and family. That's the whole point of having Christmas. Must Christmas be in perfect English and use songs/hats that aren't corny cuz we can go down that line if you want to with the ugly ass, tacky Christmas sweaters that are worn in America. That is cultural arrogance at its worst. Let's respect the different ways to celebrate as long as it fosters feelings of happiness and not be a snob about how Christmas should be celebrated.
Oh just shut the fuck up AK.
This is a good point:
"There is no right and wrong way to celebrate Christmas as long as people feel happy about the holidays and have a chance to enjoy the time with friends and family."
The rest is just you being you.
Why shut the fuck up? Huh?! You can't handle what I have to say? You're just so bitter about everything Korea. Damn. What the fuck is wrong with you huh? Must you ridicule and be cynical about everything here? What the fuck makes you so arrogant and bitter?
Yeah, only you can slander Korea and its ways but once I say the same thing back to you, you get all worked up. Why are you bitter and angry and irrational?
Yeah, only you can slander Korea and its ways but once I say the same thing back to you, you get all worked up.
Because it's my house.
Why are you bitter and angry and irrational?
Because you don't go into somebody's house and call them bitter and angry and irrational.
You've made your point about Christmas, so that will be your last comment on this thread. Other commenters will stay on topic.
You certainly can talk the talk, but you most certainly can't walk the walk. You can dish it out but you can't handle it. Coward.
I think I'll leave that one up.
Time for you to take a break.
Stop being irrational. I call you out on good points and all you can do is censor my points? And you're always the one clamoring for free speech.
You write articles and want to voice them to Koreans in magazines but when Koreans refuse your request because "it's their house" and don't want to print your articles, you get all upset.
I do the same thing to you by bringing up legitimate points and you refuse my request because "it's your house". You're doing exactly what the Korean magazines did to you and you don't even realize it. If you are so bitter about Korea, why don't you go back to Steel City? What a hypocrite.
I'm going to make this perfectly clear, and this will be the last time I do so:
Make your points, lay off the attacks. It's quite simple.
You've made your points regarding Christmas, and they were fair ones, but I'm not permitting your personal attacks to pollute this thread (more than they've already done so). Take a break, you're done in this thread, and continuing to insult me in your comments isn't helping your case.
OK. Truce.
Geeze AK if you disagree with so much about what Brian writes about why do you keep coming to his blog?
It's Christmas. Give it a rest, drink some egg nog and try being happy.
Brian, I'd actually like one of the blue penguin hats for Christmas from you please and thank you. I think they're kind of cute and I'm not too old no matter what anyone says!!!
Merry Christmas you and the future misses from both of us.
Thanks fattycat. People who disagree are certainly welcome, let's leave it at that.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, too. (And why don't you hint to yours to get you a penguin hat? And a penguin cake to go along with it?)
I'm curious about how these cakes taste. I've had Paris Baguette cakes a few times . . . they were okaaaaay, but nothing to write home about. A cake shaped like a house, though, would be worth writing home about. Damn, now I'm regretting not reserving one.
AK is clearly an asshole. He should be ignored.
On topic, I saw those pink hats today and felt really bad for the poor girls who had to wear them. And I remember last year when all my kids were made to wear the Paris Baguette hats... Awful.
Seeing as it is Brian's blog and not AK's blog, Brian can be as arrogant as he wants to be about what is "good" or "bad" about Christmas in Korea.
Personally, I think Christmas is about Christ, as in Jesus, since that's what it's named after. It's not called "Happy Santa Day" or "Snowman Day" or any shit like that and the fact that almost all advertising for Christmas in Korea doesn't acknowledge Jesus Christ at all makes Brian's point-- about it being as far removed as possible from any traditional meaning.
As for saying what Christmas should be in "perfect English" is asinine since it's NOT an English holiday, it's a Christian holiday, which originated in the middle East and migrated to Europe through Rome. Even the modern version, involving St. Nicholas starts in Turkey around 270 AD and moved to the Netherlands with the Dutch Sinterklaas. Those immigrants came to the US and it got further bastardized to Santa Claus who didn't even really exist as we know him until >180 years ago.
Even today, with more of an emphasis on the commercialization (gotta make those end of year quotas) and Jolly St. Nick, there is at least some acknowledgment in Western society of the religious origins. Even people of other faiths, such as the Jewish, or even Pagans have some sort of RELIGIOUS celebration, either Hanukkah or for Winter Solstice respectively. It's not all just silly hats and gay songs devoid of any meaning or understanding by the people singing them, celebrated with a slice of ice cream cake.
As far as cultural arrogance goes, it would be the same as us westerners coming here and making a mockery of Chusoek. We try to respect Korean holidays, and if I was in Canada with my wife, I would follow her traditions there as much as she partakes in mine here, so it's not too much of a stretch to look with disgust when other Koreans make a mockery of our own deep-rooted traditions.
The bottom line, beyond your own beliefs, AK, is that if Brian wants to be cynical and ridicule Korea, it's his blog and he can do whatever the fuck he wants to here, after all, he won an award for doing just that and you're just some asshat commenter.
@ Brian
Well an ice cream cake tastes good no matter what the season ;)
And as for "mine" getting the penguin hat he better already have something picked out! ;)
btw, of interest to some readers might be the fact that the Catholic Church in Wolgok dong will be having an English service on Christmas day around 3pm. There's sure to be some English and Tagalog Christmas songs.
@DavidTZ, I gotta strongly disagree with you. What makes you think that Christmas is "your" tradition? Because it originates in the West? That doesn't mean anything. Korea can have their own interpretations of Christmas. Christmas is the celebration of Christ, NOT the celebration of culture. And what makes you think Koreans are making of a mockery of Christmas? What is the standard of how Christmas should be celebrated? What makes you think that Christmas has to be celebrated by only singing carols, wearing goofy sweaters, drinking eggnog, wearing Santa hats and so on? Koreans aren't intentionally trying to make a mockery. Koreans are just celebrating it their own way and as I've said it many many times before, NO BETTER NO WORSE. And if you haven't noticed by now, Korea is one of most Christian countries in the world. The Korean Christians I know will all go to church on Christmas Eve for prayer and worship. Now that to me is the proper and real way to celebrate Christmas if there is even a "correct" way to celebrate it.
This post left a pretty bad taste. I know the intentions were to simply mock lightly, but it comes off as a douchebag fratboy making fun of the foreigners and their silly, gayass culture.
In the US we have santas, elves, and reindeer. In Korea they have cakes, animal hats, and poor English skills.
Lighten up, it's the holidays and every country is going to celebrate it in their own way.
and yet when you ask a Korean child (or even an adult) what Christmas is all about, they say "Santa and presents", with nary a mention that it's Christ's birthday. When I say "Jesus Christ" they say "누구?" When I say "예수님" a little light goes off and they still never figure out that CHRISTmas has nothing to do Santa and presents.
There may be a lot of Christians here, but less than 200 years ago, if you were Christian in Korea, it was an automatic death sentence. It's been a part of my culture for 2009 years. So go fuck yourself you ignorant little prick. I don't go around preaching to Koreans that their interpretation of Buddhism or Confucianism is wrong, where do you get off telling my about my own culture and upbringing?
The whole fucking point of this post is that the Korean interpretation of Christmas is fucked up. The western idea of Christmas has nothing to do with YOUR idea of Santa hats, carol singing, eggnog drinking and goofy sweaters. It's exactly a Korean's interpretation of crap they see in the commercialization of Christmas.
Christmas is as much as celebration of tradition and culture as Chuseok. What if Chuseok was suddenly a world celebration and as westerners, we decided to celebrate it by smoking dope and having an orgy? Would you just sit there while I claimed that it was just the way westerners celebrated Chuseok and if you didn't like it you could suck my ass?
Sure Koreans are celebrating it their own way, but as a person who has spent all of their life celebrating it, to see a young (especially in the modern sense) country such as Korea take all the worst parts of western commercialization and blow it up to a monstrosity such as this, it's no wonder people such as Brian, myself, and pretty much every other westerner in Korea gets a little offended at it.
We complain about the same shit in North America, too, so don't think we're picking Korea out of a crowd. It's gotten to a point in some parts, that we can't even call it Christmas anymore because it's politically incorrect and racist.
Bottom line, it's Brian's blog and he (and by default me too, since I agree with him) can bitch about it if we want to, and if you don't like it go somewhere else, read someone else's blog and don't come back. We won't miss you, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
sorry, just getting upset at the thought of a "foreigner" telling me how I should be celebrating or interpreting my own culture's holidays. Kind of like the ajumma telling me that I'm mispronouncing "lighter" when I buy smokes.
Sun is right, it is the time for peace on Earth, goodwill towards men and all that crap, and if I want to mock a country for misunderstanding the point of a holiday that originates in my part of the world, that's my prerogative. If you're going to get upset when I do that, grow a thicker skin pussy.
Thanks for the cake rundown and pictures, Brian -- that's an aspect of Christmas here that I had forgotten about. Some of the designs do look intriguing even if I'm not overly excited about buying them myself. (To each their own.)
I was really surprised to see that this post had 21 comments by the time I got to it, but after reading what others have said I can see why. =\
Hope everyone has a pleasant time on the 25th!
"and yet when you ask a Korean child (or even an adult) what Christmas is all about, they say "Santa and presents", with nary a mention that it's Christ's birthday. When I say "Jesus Christ" they say "누구?" When I say "예수님" a little light goes off and they still never figure out that CHRISTmas has nothing to do Santa and presents."
Riiight, because if you ask an American child what Christmas is all about, they're not going to say Santa and presents?
"The whole fucking point of this post is that the Korean interpretation of Christmas is fucked up."
Going by your righteous Christian babble, one could say the American interpretation of Christmas is fucked up as well. Santas, reindeers, and elves doesn't exactly emulate baby Christ being born in a manger, does it?
It's the same shitting all over a religious holiday everywhere, not just in Korea. Except, in Korea, everything is "gay" with their stupid hats, shitty, fobby Engrish, and crummy cakes.
It just comes off as offensive, homophobic douchebag when one country's fucked up interpretation of a holiday is considered worse than another country's fucked up interpretation just because they're "gayer." It's offensive just by using "gay" as an insult.
it's not too much of a stretch to look with disgust when other Koreans make a mockery of our own deep-rooted traditions.
I might make the point that these days, even "back home" Christmas traditions are made a mockery of. Christmas music and Santa almost immediately after Halloween ("Only 45 shopping days until Christmas!")?
And except for the occasional nativity scene, unless someone is suing someone else because their feelings are hurt when they were wished "Merry Christmas" [and they are not even Christian!! How dare they wish me Merry Christmas!], Jesus isn't in the forefront of Christmas now, either.
Korea can have their own interpretations of Christmas. Christmas is the celebration of Christ, NOT the celebration of culture. And what makes you think Koreans are making of a mockery of Christmas?
You state that Christmas is the celebration of Christ, but except for the cross on top of the City Hall Christmas tree, where is it?
The dirty language posted here is somewhat disgusting. Im starting to feel that its no longer as decent as it used to be. Arguments are ok i suppose, but profanities and/or obscene words are the tools of the fool.
In many ways i agree with AK, in the same way that most of the time i agree with Brian. I want to believe (and i still do) that Brian is writing his posts objectively and fair. Thats the reason why im a regular reader here.
In fairness to AK, he might be out of line sometimes, but his points are very objective so i guess right.
But if Brian himself or others will insist on a dogma such as " this is his blog, this my blog brou-ha-ha, so get lost if you dont want to read it" then i dont think its healthy for both sides. Its as if this blog is a cyberspace zarsuela, far from the fair and accurate journalism that i used to believe. Criticisms are normal and it generates discussion. Cool for all of us.
And again regarding the post, i also agree on the point "There is no right and wrong way to celebrate Christmas as long as people feel happy about the holidays and have a chance to enjoy the time with friends and family." Only retards will fail to understand this.
It's not really fair for one poster to play "blog police" and continually attack the poster (and anyone else who pops up in the comment section) especially when it's the same point being made over and over again.
Cultural relativism is a nice sentiment, but it doesn't apply in cases of
-personal taste (which you might chalk this blog post up to)
-quantitative comparisons
-confronting another culture's claims of superiority.
In this case, I can understand why funny hats, cake and romance seem to be completely unrelated to "Christmas" as it is known in other parts of the world. I'm happy to just call it 크리스마스, and say that if it makes Koreans happy, it's perfectly fine.
Just as an aside, is it right and proper to apply cultural relativism in cases when Koreans do not behave in ways that are understanding and respectful toward other cultures? Should intolerance be tolerated?
Tbis is a blog about Korea, therefore the ridiculous aspects of Christmas in Korea were observed and discussed.
If Brian lived in the UK or Russia or South Africa, I'm sure he'd post about the ridiculous aspects of Christmas there too.
So can certain people lay off the high horse, short-sighted "leave Korea alone" rants. It's old.
hahahaha, righteous Christian babble-- that's rich! I'm about as far removed from being Christian as one can be considering my background. I haven't been to Church in over 30 years and after my father quit Theology college before I was even born, I've been brought up in a decidingly NON-Christian environment.
My point is that the worst of the westerner's own commercialization of Christmas has been latched onto and gone running wild here. I'm not claiming that it doesn't happen in western cultures too, but I am pointing out that even with the mad out-of-control commercialization of Christmas in the west, the traditional, religious part of it, is at least still at the back of everybody's mind-- including my own and I'm anti-religion. THAT part of Christmas is completely non-existent here except in the minds of hardcore Christians. At least "back home" there is the occasional nativity scene-- where are they here?
Maybe a child in the west thinks that Christmas is all about the presents, but most also know the true story as well. Not so much here, where you'd have to be an actual Christian who's going to midnight mass to know about it. My wife went to catholic high school and she had no idea there was a traditional midnight mass until I told her last night.
As for the use of the word "gay" I said that ONCE in reference to the music and I could have be referring to how they are so K-pop-y and happy, go-lucky sounding (the true meaning of the word "gay"), devoid of any meaning. It was only YOU who referred to "gay" as being homosexual, so who's the homophobe?
And BTW, I'm not American, so I would have no idea about the American interpretation of Christmas, but if it's all that much the same as my own country, than it's probably not that much different. However, I never said that Christmas was all about religion in the west-- just that it at least creeps in somewhere along the way, so telling me over and over again how wrong I am about something I never claimed is laughable. For the most part, people are quoting me and then going on to embellish on those quotes-- pretty much saying and agreeing with what I said in the first place.
Whatever the case, we all live in a free democracy and, as has been said a few times, we are all free to celebrate Christmas any way we choose. With that in mind, I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Super Solstice or whatever turns your fancy. Have a good holiday, enjoy your time with family and friends and may your life be full and peaceful.
Happy Holidays, everyone.
I had one of the Paris Baguette cakes yesterday. It was a holiday cake with dutch chocolate and marshmellow frosting. It was awesome. I thoroughly endorse the Paris Baguette cakes.
It's just AK being AK. He has to rationalize everything Koreans do as "their culture," and he has to bash non-Koreans any time they have the slightest criticism of said "culture."
I really like Christmas because I get to spend the whole day doing things simply because they are 'very traditional'. It's kind of like being Korean. (Except that I strip out all the tedious and sanctimonious traditions that reinforce negative structures of patriarchy and the pseudo-historic fantasy-rituals that serve purely to naturalize relations of hierarchical power and just do the ones that I actually enjoy.)
Merry Xmas, everyone!
It is quite difficult to get into the holiday spirit in Korea. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in a while. My first experiences with Korean Catholics made me not want to come to church in Korea, because church to them was an all day affair. I think that if I were to attend church for some kind of midnight mass or something, then perhaps I could get more into the holiday spirit, but instead I think I'll just stick to my original plan of beer canning some chickens with my inlaws.
I think that seeing holiday cakes and hats leaves some people who aren't Korean feel a bit alienated, since Christmas is such a big stink back home. In years past, I have just dealt with this alienation by celebrating Christmas my own way, by roasting a chicken. Going to a butcher shop and buying an expensive ass prime rib and cooking that bastard up, make some mashed potatoes, give loved ones gifts. I think you just gotta make the holiday work for you.
I'm getting into the Christmas spirit by cooking a very traditional, very delicious (vegetarian) Christmas dinner for 15 people. For me, Christmas is about making other people happy. People who will, in turn, buy you drinks and presents.
@ Kermo
Kermo! Are you Kermo from Davesesl? If you are, I'm Troll_Bait. Come visit my blog sometime.
Word Verification: whack
Thank you all for making this Christmas season a time of love and goodwill. ;)
People, people... I think the only way to get rid of all this bitterness is with some sweet delicious ice-cream cake from "Baskin Robbins Surrey One."
@ Korean Rum Diary
"On topic, I saw those pink hats today and felt really bad for the poor girls who had to wear them."
Do you mean 2NE1? They're making money off of that endorsement. Well, their company is. One of the benefits of employing the underaged.
FeRis Navida!
From the Original Post:
"Here's Kim Tae-hee and Girls' Generation modeling a badger hat, or something:" (emphasis mine)
Freudian slip?
I mean, how can you confuse the two?
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.
.
.
.
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Girls' Generation has nine members.
Koreans know what the meaning of Christmas is. There is a difference between advertisements to purely sell things and what people know. You sound as if Koreans have no knowledge about basic things as this.
@Davidtz, you don't even know who I am so stop assuming where I come from, etc. Christmas ain't "yours". It ain't mine. It belongs to nobody. So lay off of it.
I hate how back home chuseok is just about going to work and not at all about honoring ancestors.
sure, just as soon as you do the same and lay off of it.
I was raised as a Catholic, but spent the latest 1/3 of my life as an agnostic therefore ceased to celebrate Christmas as well as far as its "true" meaning is concerned. Nevertheless, i still like the Christmas Holidays for so many reasons. So since its the 24th, and a few hours more its Christmas eve...let me greet you all "Merry Christmas"
Goodwill to all! I wrote my thoughts about this comment train-wreck at Roboseyo.
Keep working on that goodwill to all stuff, eh? Drink some eggnog, have a smoke, and look at some christmas lights. Jeez.
Lets not forget christians hijacked a Pagan holiday if people are going to boil it down.
Also I saw a child wearing one of those hats that makes him look like extra in a Dr seuss story. I chuckled to my self.
Well, there's a lot to reply to here, so I'll do my best.
First, about comments and my blog . . .
It's my blog. That doesn't mean everybody has to agree with me. That doesn't mean I can say whatever I want and expecte everyone to fall in line. That does mean I can post whatever I want and run my comment section any way I please. You think I'm arrogant? Well, maybe it comes across that way in print because I'm a lot more "talkative" when writing than when speaking. But, if you want arrogance, here you go, begging your pardon:
In a little over two years I've built one of the most-read English-language blogs in Korea, and among the most influential. I've not only appeared in several publications but have had my site quoted by Yonhap and the Hankook Ilbo. My articles are picked up by bloggers and twitterers all over the world, and you'll remember that the posts I wrote about the Nazi-themed cosmetics ad went all the way to CNN. When anyone here spends years developing a blog and a readership, spends hours a day researching, writing, and taking photos, puts in the time to foster positive relationships with other foreigner and other foreign writers and bloggers in Korea, puts his/her neck out there by writing with your real name, subjecting yourselves to netizens, to angry foreigners, and to competitors, and when you put the time into creating a healthy comment section . . . when you've done all that, then you can come here and tell me how to run MY site. You want arrogance? There it was.
I don't mind if people disagree with me. No problem, fine. But like I said, this is "my house." Take off your shoes, take your feet off the furniture, and don't kick the dog. You want to post here, play nice, and play by the rules. Just because I make something public doesn't mean the public has a right to use the space I've been cultivating for name-calling, spamming, trolling, and generally being mean. I'm not going to allow each post to have 50 comments, 43 of which devoted to commenters taking swings at each other. If that's "censorship," then so be it. It's always been that way, and always will be.
I put a lot of work into this site, and take a lot of chances. Sometimes I get it right, other times I get it wrong (and my commenters tell me so). But I'm not going to let my hours of work be trumped by a few minutes of an angry passerby with a keyboard and an agenda.
Besides, you're a fickle lot (speaking in general). Remember how much shit I took in 2008 for being a quote-unquote Korea hater? Well, in case you've forgotten, some nutcase netizen nearly cost me my job. Now, people think I've gone soft because I post about festivals and Christmas lights. I'm not fond of justifying what I do on my own site, so don't think how I run my site is up for debate. I owe alot to my thoughtful commenters, but I'm not beholden to any of them. This site started as a way to spread information and blog about miscellany I find interesting, and I intend to keep it that way.
Now, about Christmas . . .
Here's Roboseyo's latest:
http://roboseyo.blogspot.com/2009/12/christmas-in-gwanghwamunchunggyecheon.html
He brings up good points,, and I've made a comment there.
When I think about Christmas in Korea I'm reminded of the "uncanny valley." That's an analogy I've used before; it has to do with animation, and I'm sure there's a term used to describe the cultural phenomenon, but I don't know what it is. Here's what wikipedia has to say about it:
***
The uncanny valley hypothesis holds that when robots and other facsimiles of humans look and act almost like actual humans, it causes a response of revulsion among human observers. The "valley" in question is a dip in a proposed graph of the positivity of human reaction as a function of a robot's lifelikeness.
. . .
Mori's hypothesis states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to the robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached beyond which the response quickly becomes that of strong repulsion. However, as the appearance and motion continue to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-to-human empathy levels.[5]
This area of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely human" and "fully human" entity is called the uncanny valley. The name captures the idea that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the empathic response required for productive human-robot interaction.
***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
No, I'm not saying Koreans are humanoids. What I mean is, I think we're well-adjusted enough to enjoy and appreciate Korean holidays and other Korean things (food, music, art, etc.) But in the case of Korean Christmas---this also works well for Korean "western" food--the uncanny valley comes into play. A lot of the features of Christmas are aped---lights, holiday music, snowmen, etc.---but the result isn't affection but revulsion because we focus more on what's "wrong" than what's familiar.
Furthermore, what's puzzling about Christmas in Korea is that it seems to have no . . . well, no reason for it. Like Roboseyo said in his post, the religious roots aren't there. Fair enough, back home many people don't consider it a sacred holiday anymore. Hell, when I think of Christmas back home I think of trees, decorations, lights . . . and of course dinner with family, singing Christmas carols, watching the snow, and all that stuff.
But Korean Christmas doesn't even harken back to THAT. So I ask what I think is a legitimate question: what's the point of Christmas in Korea? I don't think it's "irrational," as AK says, to be bothered by our most important holiday being reduced to snowman hats, Christmas cake, and painful performances of Jinglebell Lock.
The point and ONLY point of Christmas as it is in Korea and in every country is to spend time with family, friends, enjoy food, and be happy with whatever makes you happy be it silly hats, cute cakes, tacky sweaters, nativity scenes, chubby Santa, etc regardless of what the roots may be and how much is actually depicted on the outside. Just because it is depicted on the outside doesn't mean it is necessarily the same within one's hearts and minds. Enjoy the holidays because that is the true meaning of Christmas.
@AK "The point and ONLY point of Christmas as it is in Korea and in every country is to spend time with family, friends, enjoy food, and be happy with whatever makes you happy"
That should be the point but I dont think it is here. If it was, why are so many of my Korean friends really depressed and freaking out because they dont have a boyfriend/girlfriend to share Christmas with? I've got a couple of friends who are not going to leave the house over the next couple of days and one or two who have asked for overtime at work because in Korea(as they've told me) Christmas is a time for lovers and it just reminds them that they dont have a date.
While I've never really been a fan of Christmas or enjoyed it (for several personal reasons), I do hope every one else can find happiness during this holiday season, whatever form that may take.
As for "missing the point of Christmas" -- it's tough here, becuase Korea already HAS family holidays; they don't really need another day when all the roads are clogged for a weekend. But for me, Christmas is far and away the top family holiday - no contest.
The only way I can explain the importance of Christmas to many Westerners is to say "Imagine Chusok, Sollal, and Children's Day, all in one day. That's Christmas to me." -- that usually brings it home, but even then, "what's so special about turkey dinner?" - imagine Chuseok without songpyeon.
The fact that christmas here LOOKS similar, but is practiced so totally differently, I think, exacerbates homesickness and/or culture shock, for a lot of people who are already suffering from them.
What I normally do to get around this issue is barricade myself in my apartment with a dozen or so friends and cook a huge Christmas dinner with all the trimmings. I put up a Christmas tree and decorations and what-have-you, stick some Christmas music on, and then viciously berate any guest showing cynicism or otherwise-un-Christmassy sentiment. It's a big effort, but it's worth it.
@fattycat, I think you're mostly referring to the younger adults
@arvinsign:
profanities and/or obscene words are the tools of the fool.
Only retards will fail to understand this
Not exactly profanity or obscene, but still quite offensive. Does that make you a fool, too?
@ Darth B
"Not exactly profanity or obscene, but still quite offensive. Does that make you a fool, too?"
Offensive to who? to you?
To answer your question, No, i don't think so.
Good lord. There's a lot going on here, so I'll try to keep this short and sweet:
Really stupid shit happens in the US at Christmas time.
Really stupid shit happens in Korea at Christmas time.
Coming from one country or the other doesn't mean you can't comment on the asinine quality of the holidays in both.
Shutting yourself off to seeing the bad points of something is shutting yourself off to truly loving and understanding something.
Brian, your blog is great. And, more importantly, it's real. You know that already, because if it wasn't, it wouldn't be as big as it is. Keep up the good work. Let the haters hate.
Offensive to who? to you?
One, as someone with a disabled person in my family, fucking RIGHT I find it offensive.
Two, try calling one of your Korean friends a "byung-shin" and you tell me if they don't find it offensive as well.
(and, no, I don't give a shit if I did use profanity in my response)
@AK
There is no right and wrong way to celebrate Christmas as long as people feel happy about the holidays and have a chance to enjoy the time with friends and family. That's the whole point of having Christmas.
Technically, that's not the whole point of Christmas at all.
That's just a happy bonus of Christmas.
And if you haven't noticed by now, Korea is one of most Christian countries in the world.
Considering the amount of physical and mental abuse teachers dish out on their students, how much the government scapegoats and demonizes foreigners just because they're different and how obssessed Koreans are with underaged performers... yeah, I think you have a valid point.
You sound as if Koreans have no knowledge about basic things as this.
Agreed. You don't.
The point and ONLY point of Christmas as it is in Korea and in every country is to spend time with family, friends, enjoy food, and be happy with whatever makes you happy be it silly hats, cute cakes, tacky sweaters, nativity scenes, chubby Santa, etc regardless of what the roots may be and how much is actually depicted on the outside.
1) Holy run on sentence, Batman. Periods are your friend.
2) Once again: No, that is not the one and only point of Christmas in every country. Maybe in Korea. But not elsewhere.
Enjoy the holidays because that is the true meaning of Christmas.
Incorrect again. You need more Christmas specials in Korea, apparently.
Look, you can repeat it as many times as you like to try and convince people that your nonfactual argument is correct. As is the case with the Liancourt Rocks, just saying something over and over doesn't make it a fact.
(BOOYA)
@Darth Babaganoosh
And except for the occasional nativity scene, unless someone is suing someone else because their feelings are hurt when they were wished "Merry Christmas" [and they are not even Christian!! How dare they wish me Merry Christmas!]
I would say its mostly the other way around. Its the Christians that started this whole stupid "War on Christmas" because people tend to favour "Happy Holidays" over "Merry Christmas" (what with their being so many different types of religions and religious holidays being celebrated this time of year).
@arvinsign
Arguments are ok i suppose, but profanities and/or obscene words are the tools of the fool.
... Only retards will fail to understand this.
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.
@L Tron
Thank you all for making this Christmas season a time of love and goodwill. ;)
I see what you did there, too. But you get yours in lower case.
@This Is Me Posting - Your ludicrous analysis doesn't even deserve a counter-response. You don't even know me so stop assuming things.
Incorrect yet again. I do know you, AK, just as I knew you'd answer with such pusillanimity.
That being said, that is neither here nor there. I'm just quoting you back to you and pointing out where you're wrong. Its not an attack on your character, as you're trying to pretend the situation is, its an attack on your nescience. Two completely different things.
The fact of the matter is every statement I made is 100% factually correct while yours are, as I pointed out, erroneous... Over and over again. You don't have to reply to me if you don't want to, but don't pretend to reprimand others - especially blog owners in their own blog - when you don't even have a leg to stand on.
@This Is Me Posting - You may have seen my responses on a few other topics and probably start to assume what I may think about certain things, but that is far from knowing who I am and how I view everything. You don't even know who you're talking to. You are jumping to conclusions buddy. You don't know where I am from, what shapes my views, etc.
As far as you go, I can say many things but I'll just say that I've gone over many of your posts that you made in the past and you are just a "wicked cynic" as you even admitted yourself. Not that hard to get that feeling from your posts.
I don't know what makes you think you are 100% factually correct and there is no right or wrong when it comes to subjective topics such as this. So, stop the snobbery.
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree since you think I'm erroneous and I think your analysis is just as ridiculous.
Once again, this is not an attack on your character as you're trying to make it out to be. Its a critique on your facts, of which you aren't using any. Stop crying about who you are and what you are. I don't care about you, where you're from, who you are and what you think about yourself. Like I said, I know who you are, I don't need you to tell me over and over again what you think about yourself.
Being a "wicked cynic" doesn't discount how amazingly right I am. I've presented facts, albeit in a snarky manner. They're still facts.
This is not a subjective topic. Art is subjective. Opinions are subjective. Saying "The point and ONLY point of Christmas as it is in Korea and in every country is to spend time with family, friends, enjoy food, and be happy with whatever makes you happy be it silly hats, cute cakes, tacky sweaters, nativity scenes, chubby Santa, etc regardless of what the roots may be and how much is actually depicted on the outside" is OBJECTIVE. Its an OBJECTIVE statement that is NOT open to SUBJECTIVE interpretation. Once again, there is a difference - one which you clearly don't understand - which is how and why I can say you're wrong and why my indication of your error is still right.
We will not agree to disagree. You may think I'm ridiculous (I don't care, go ahead), but we will not agree that I am in error here, because I am not. Everything I've written is 100% based in fact, is real and verifiable. Everything you have written borders fiction.
Let me make something abundantly clear here: You cannot win this argument. You cannot be the better person here. You cannnot win the moral high ground. You cannot control the direction of this argument and you cannot misdirect it. Why? Because I WILL NOT LET YOU.
Like I said, I don't care about you, your whining, crying, lies and/or fabrications. You're still incredibly wrong and all I'm doing is pointing that out to you in my "wickedly cynical" fashion. Suck it up, princess.
The more you respond, the more you just sound bitter and terribly irrational.
I've gotten to you and you think you can stop me? pleeez.
@ Darth
One, as someone with a disabled person in my family, fucking RIGHT I find it offensive.
-- If that is sincere, my apologies then. So ok, ill change my word then from "retard" to " senseless". Fair enough?
Two, try calling one of your Korean friends a "byung-shin" and you tell me if they don't find it offensive as well.
-- I dont have Korean friends, and calling anyone on such a term, is light years different from the context when i used it in my previous statement. So please dont put color on that statement.
(and, no, I don't give a shit if I did use profanity in my response)
-- i dont care either, if that is the class/level of personality that you have, then i can do nothing about it. I guess thats your way of life. I find it disgusting (then so be it), and i refuse to converse with people who loves profanity as a way to intimidate others, but then its just me. So relax. Its probably deeply rooted in you or something that genetics wont be able to fathom.
Merry Christmas, everyone!
(Happy Christmas if you're British)
AK: Having been roped into attending a Christmas mass here in Korea, it was about what I would expect to in a Christmas mass anywhere (although that is only in relation to my expectations of a Christmas mass, since having never been to a Christmas mass anywhere else, I don't actually know for sure), so I'd say you are right. Koreans, at least some of them, say the Christian ones, understand Christmas. Beyond that though, I wish you would stop speaking for me. The whole point of Christmas for you may be to spend time with family and to enjoy the holidays. It is not so for me, and I suspect many in the world would agree.
This is Me Posting: Using statements like being 100% factually correct is rather dangerous. It doesn't take much to be shown that one isn't, and then when one takes someone to task for their comments, well...
David tz: I don't know that we of the west (and I suppose I actually mean North America) can talk much about the bastardization of Christmas here in Korea given that we let Coca-Cola define much of the current incarnation of Santa Claus and thus the image of Christmas. Technically, I suppose, Christmas is a religious observance of Christians who overlaid the observance on older pagan rituals in order to drive them into extinction as Christianity gained the upper hand in the business of ministering to people's souls. And you were good enough to make it your definition and not try to impose it on others.
And to bring it all back to the original post before it got caught in all this bickering, I'm not Christian. But I still observe Christmas, in my own way. Christmas in Korea is unrecognizable to me in many ways, although it has many of the same trappings that I know from Christmas at home. But it doesn't really have the "feeling" I experience at home. (And I have to confess that a lot of that feeling is irritation as I would face Christmas displays starting in September. We have lost the knowledge of Christmas in North America, just as much as it seems to have never been properly found here in Korea.) I would still say it is Christmas here, as defined by Korea. Possibly it should have a different name, but then our North American Christmas should possibly have a different name, too. In any case, it is Christmas, so...
Merry Christmas!!!!!
The "real meaning" of Christmas is not something can be summed up on a blog comment. Even if you took a small slice of it, geographically and temporally, e.g., the contemporary North American understanding of Christmas, you'd still get a labyrinthine tangle of early Christian + pagan + commercial + modern Christian + secular + immigrant influence + ad infinitum.
My father has written a couple books and done a lifetime of research on the topic of Christmas, its origins and influences, so if you have any questions, I'd be happy to walk down the hall and get some answers (e.g., setting the record straight about Coca Cola and Santa Claus.)
I wish Christmas in Korea were about family and happiness, but I don't get that impression from my students. When I ask them "Are you excited about Christmas?" they moan, and reply "No, we're not. Because we're single." Bummer. (<-- not to be offensive. ;) )
@AK
The more you respond, the more you just sound bitter and terribly irrational.
Incorrect again. The more I respond, the more amazingly right you prove me to be and the more you display that you don't know what you're talking about because you have nothing to say.
I would argue, by the way, that what you are doing is something called "projection bias".
I've gotten to you and you think you can stop me? pleeez.
Hmm... in this point, you may be right. If there's one thing I can't tolerate, its stupidity. Its hard to cure people of this dangerous habit. You, for example, seem deeply rooted in it.
@Wandering Ken
Absolutely true...
Unless, as in this case in my discussion with AK, one is 100% factually correct. I challenge anyone to point out any comment I made in this thread to be in error.
AK, evidentially, can't do it. Unlike him, I'm totally open to be proven wrong.
Seconds on the ice cream cake..its my favorite kind of cake and with no Dairy Queen here, I appreciate Baskin and Robbins pumping them out. I don't think you had to reserve them though. I walked into a B&R yesterday and just picked one up...all the shops around here had piles of cakes sitting around.
@This Is Me Posting - Like I've said before, I don't deal with loonies who can't even see both sides of the coin. You don't even bring up any facts/evidence, you just make claims that you're right. If you actually think that there is a "right way" to celebrate Christmas in the modern sense, may your arrogant soul be saved. So from now on, you aren't even worth my time.
@Wandering Ken - I think you touched on a lot of good points. Points I would suggest that exactly sum up my point of view which is that there is no right or wrong way to celebrate Christmas. Everyone's opinion of this or that is RELATIVE to your own experiences. So obviously if you grew up in North America, you're probably be going to be bewildered by the way Christmas is in Korea. And that is to be expected since Korea isn't in North America. Deal with it. It's Korea's own way, no better, no worse.
@Kermo, you are referring to young adults, not the general population. You are generalizing based upon on a segment of the overall population.
Merry Christmas, Brian, and keep up the good work. Regardless of who agrees with your observations and who doesn't, your posts are always well-researched and well-articulated ... often more so than many for-profit news sources.
@arvinsign
This debate over the use of profanity and the word "retard" is not due to class or level of personality. Though they are unnecessary here this debase is really based cultural use of language.
The use of curse words have a much stronger meaning in your country then in many western countries and in many countries the word "retard" is very offensive and would never be used in polite language.
Lets just let this all go and have a Merry Christmas
In all honesty, i can say that the last 3 Xmas holidays i spent (in Korea) is extremely boring. But i know within myself that the reason i came up with that conclusion is because im comparing it to the previous experiences i had from where i originally came from (where Christmas is really really festive). Being an x-catholic, turned agnostic, then i started to redefine the meaning of this holiday. In short, for most of us, the real meaning of Christmas and the "standards" as to how to celebrate it is a matter of opinion and personal taste. Being that said, it is therefore fair not to criticize any country/culture's way of celebrating Christmas. Traditions are evolving entities, the ones we do right now is very much different on how they do it hundreds of years ago. So it doesnt make any difference too if one country will celebrate it in a much different way as compared with the others. So guys, stop being an annoying narcissists convinced that the entire universe revolves around you and your petty concerns. Christmas is for all of us. Merry Christmas
Amen Arvinsign. Well said. Happy holidays to all.
David, lay off the Jesus juice mate people don't like being preached at. It's a largely pagan winter festival that was hijacked by the church.
A tree that we take indoors (to stop the spirits dying in winter.) A random man who gives presents. holly from the woods, eating a shit load of food and drink. There's more blasphemy in Christmas than a Christopher Hitchens book.
Brian:
The blog is great, really entertaining, varied and the critical tone is what makes it readable and funny. But you're not trashing Korea, you're just critically commenting on stuff that happens in Korea. Some readers (trolls?) that share the designation of a Kalashnikov, seem to object to this as it offends their overblown sense of irrational 24/7 nationalism; something which one should never submit to.
The alternative is a blog that constantly praises the virtues of Kimchi, Korean culture, isn't everything great, wow, what a cultural experience etc. etc. If you did that, I would stop reading and so would everyone else.
Keep up the good work.
@Bit - Critically commentating or unfairly commentating? I think that's the point of contention and we all disagree on that as has been pointed out already. I don't know what makes you think I'm some 24/7 irrational nationalist. What's so funny is that if anyone takes a stance against expats, one automatically assumes the person is a flag-beating nationalist consumed with anti-foreigner vitriol which is not even the case. All I've said that is that it is important to be objective and neutral. Criticize respectfully without slandering a group as a whole and try to see both sides of the picture. I've always said "no better, no worse" in many instances. Everything is relative to where one comes from.
Cris Tabernac. The ugly American lives. "Do it my way -- waa waa waa."
Time to go home if all you can do is bitch about the place and people that gave you employment when no-one else would.
I dunno AK, you just come across a bit trollish in the posts, asking the same questions: 'Do you speak Korean?' and it seems you react to any criticism whatsoever of anything in Korea. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how you come across.
And honestly, I don't swallow the line that everything is relative. cultural relativism is just as incessantly dull as racism.
DG, I was going to write something like "a person who writes what you does clearly is unfamiliar with this site and ignorant about who English teachers are and what they do in Korea, and doesn't deserve a response."
But then I realized that "go fuck off troll" is a response, and one you deserve, so there you go.
I think you all can see here what happens when comment threads become overrun by one particular person interested in debating and insulting everyone else, including the author, and why I try to keep the threads well pruned.
AK, people are sick of your game, accusing others of generalizing and being biased while of course doing the same thing yourself. I've already asked you to take a break on this thread, and you've continued posting. Anything else directed at me or other posters in this thread will be summarily deleted. That includes replies to me here about why you don't like this policy. And any further insults you throw at me on those deleted comments---as you've done the past few days---will make comments on other threads subject to summary deletion as well.
I wrote yesterday that I won't let a thread be overrun by commenters not playing nice, and I'm not going to shut down a thread to all readers because of one person.
I vote for blocking DG.
"Home would be so much better, wouldn't it Brian, except they don't want you there. Am I right?"
"Writing your own blog would be so much better wouldn't it DG, except no one would want to read what you have to say there. Am I right?"
I have a question for the commenters: Are any Christian, as in born again? Do any of the commenters attend church regularly? Because Christians in Korea DO know what the meaning of Christmas is and celebrate the birth of Jesus just like they do in churches in the US. And don't forget that in the US the question "Did you have a good Christmas?" means did you get lots of expensive presents, not did you enjoy time with your family?
Zen Kimchi has a closer look at Korean Christmas cakes this year:
http://www.zenkimchi.com/FoodJournal/archives/1925
Wow. I go away for the Xmas weekend and this thread jumps to 91 posts. Yowza.
Like I've said before, I don't deal with loonies who can't even see both sides of the coin.
IRONY. I see what you did there.
You don't even bring up any facts/evidence, you just make claims that you're right.
Yes, I did. First post. Please read more carefully.
If you actually think that there is a "right way" to celebrate Christmas...
HOLY CRAP, STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THE ARGUMENT. That wasn't - and NEVER WAS - what I was taking issue with. What I took issue with was your black-and-white definition of the MEANING of Christmas, you dumb bastard. For crying out loud, you're making the Baby Jesus cry on his FREAKIN' BIRTHDAY.
Either stick to an argument or don't talk at all.
So from now on, you aren't even worth my time.
Thank goodness you're being blocked. Obvious troll. I tried dealing with you rationally, its clear you're only here to piss people off. Glad you're gone.
---
For my part Brian, I'm sorry I let this run so long. I hope you had a merry Christmas.
Had a wonderful Christmas, TIMP, thanks. I might post a little about it tomorrow, but my fiancee and I saw Nanta in Suncheon on the 24th, had a turkey dinner (her first) at my friend's restaurant on the 25th, and met Roboseyo for some good Hanjeongshik on the 26th. Will be sad to take the tree down, though.
Why must those delicious turkey dinners only come twice a year?
Good times, good times.
If that is sincere, my apologies then. So ok, ill change my word then from "retard" to " senseless". Fair enough?
Fair enough. thank you.
i refuse to converse with people who loves profanity as a way to intimidate others
I didn't do it to intimidate you. I did it out of anger. It's not the personality defect you assume. Chill.
I was quite ready to agree with you, Brian, until you brought up Mormon choir.
Aww, come on, they're awesome! If they do a rendition of "Last Christmas," then I'll take it back.
Christmas cakes are making their way to America (well, at least Orange County).
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