Me: “Hiya! I just thought the Embassy should be aware that 30+ U.S citizens have been quarantined right outside Seoul for suspicion of swine flu exposure.”
Operator: “Okay, well it’s a weekend, and we’re closed. Monday’s memorial day, so could you call back on tuesday?”
Me: “You…you’re serious?”
Operator: “Is it an emergency? Cause if it is we have someone we can call.”
Me: “Um…let’s see, there’s 30 americans in quarantine for swine flu exposure. Basically, we’re arrested. It’s totally cool, don’t worry—we’ll call on tuesday—”
Operator: “Okay, thanks for calling.”
Me: “No wait—”
Oh, and via Roboseyo comes news of another blog.
27 comments:
What?! The US embassy not interested in US citizens with problems in a foreign country?
I'm not even sure why we even have a US embassy in Seoul... or Hong Kong... or Beijing... or Tokyo... or any other place where I've encountered their surly "fu¢k you attitude" about doing their job.
I noticed from that blog that the guy and the other "quarantined" foreigners are actually allowed to hang out with each other and socialize!
In Japan, quarantined individuals were kept in separate rooms so as to not infect each other. That way, all who didn't come down with the flu could leave after 7 days.
Do Korean health officials not understand that the point of quarantine is to prevent the spread of the disease? If they were really concerned about the health of these people, they would make sure there was little chance that they could infect each other.
kushibo said, "I'm not even sure why we even have a US embassy in Seoul... or Hong Kong... or Beijing... or Tokyo... or any other place where I've encountered their surly "fu¢k you attitude" about doing their job."
It's the same as with any other country's embassy. They are there to provide and deny visas for the locals (and do as little real work as possible, especially Houston's Korean embassy with their 4 hour work week), and those who have purchased tickets and are traveling abroad as a stranger in a strange land are now subject to the laws, and insanity, of the land in which they are visiting.
Speaking only for myself, but as someone who once worked in an American Citizen Services section of an embassy far, far away from Korea, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
1. That operator sucks! The Embassy has a 24 hr duty officer who should have been at least informed of what went on.
2. That being said, there isn't much the embassy could have done. Korea has a sovereign right(and probably duty) to quarentine sick and contagious people living within its borders.
Furthermore, in case of infectius diseases, consular visits are largely discouraged--you don't want someone infected working in an over-crowded consular section surrounded by people traveling around the world.
I imagine Korean health officials are reasonably efficient, but even if they're not, the consulate doesn't have doctors (or police or lawyers) that can be of service. It only has consular officers who are generally efficient liasons, but who are dependent on local service providers just like any other resident.
Of course point 2 does not negate point 1; hopefully if it went down the way the post says it did, some sort of corrective action will be taken on Tuesday.
J, their job is to quarantine them from the unexposed public.
Given how they were already exposed to each other, further exposure to each other would make little difference in a case such as this, but it would lead to problems such as cooperation with quarantine. This, in fact, was a major reason why SARS spread.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the Korean officials putting people in a quarantine who were exposed to a potentially deadly virus. Better to err on the side of safety, especially when dealing with teachers who are soon to be in classrooms in contact with hundreds of kids.
Is it really the duty of the US Embassy to get involved?
I agree with you there, Joe, about it being reasonable to quarantine them.
But I think you're off on this one point...
Is it really the duty of the US Embassy to get involved?
Well, of course the embassy should get involved, because basically they were arrested!
I assumed kushibo was being facetious in his first comment, so I didn't respond to it.
I also don't think health officials are out of line to quarantine them. I don't think the issue was the embassy not springing them loose---and I don't think anybody was asking for that. I just think these people wanted to alert the embassy that, like, citizens were being held for a potentially deadly virus. You'd think they'd be interested to learn about that.
This is hardly the first case of the US Embassy not being helpful to its citizens, if in fact that's what happened. (I'm not going to condemn the whole embassy based on something posted on a blog I'd never heard of until yesterday.) If you want to look at inactivity---even neglect---look at what happens when expats die under mysterious circumstances here. Clearly they'd care more about you if you snuck across the North Korean border than if you were turned up dead down here.
We may not be hearing much from him in the future. I suspect the internet problems will mysteriously effect their ability to communicate with the outside world to tell them that there are more people in quarantine than most any other country in the world. That would be bad press and I'm sure the powers that be would find it "in the public interest" to shut down their access to the outside world. These guys are new so I wonder if they got cell phones yet?
Well, the first part — the feigned surprise — was sarcastic, but the second part — about the F.U. attitude — was quite serious.
I do think they're being a tad histrionic (they were basically arrested?!) but I do agree with them and Brian and most of the people here that "you'd think the embassy would be interested" about their plight.
That said, John from Taejŏn is only half right about why the embassy is there: They are also here to provide voter registration services, passport services, etc., all without deriding the US citizens requesting these services for living abroad in the first place and asking them why they bother keeping their citizenship if they're going to live in Korea for five or ten years or more.
The Hegemonist wrote:
1. That operator sucks! The Embassy has a 24 hr duty officer who should have been at least informed of what went on.
I've had similar experiences. I've often cited a case of a mixed group of Americans and Canadians arrested for drug use in central Korea. The on-duty officer for the weekend (it was a Sunday) was confused about what to do; the pot-smoking English teachers were suddenly being arraigned on a Sunday afternoon (!) and there was a genuine fear that they were being railroaded, and the US embassy seemed disinterested. The Canadian embassy seemed interested, but the person who answered the phone was actually in Ottawa and could do nothing.
2. That being said, there isn't much the embassy could have done. Korea has a sovereign right(and probably duty) to quarentine sick and contagious people living within its borders.
Um... they could check to make sure their citizens are okay and being treated according to law.
Frankly, with one or two, I could understand (though not necessarily excuse) the can't-be-bothered attitude, but with two or three dozen, I think it borders on professional negligence.
If I were taking in a group of ROK nationals coming here to Hawaii, and they got quarantined at the airport or some hospital and I was tasked with contacting the consulate, I would expect the understaffed ROK consulate to do something.
Although I would have to say things are getting better, I think the US embassy (and they are not alone, but they are especially egregious) seems particularly disinterested in helping US citizens in real trouble. It's as if they are saying, "Hey, we told you on our website not to come, so don't bother us when you have a problem... any problem." This extends even to those who are not part of the group of English teachers who were warned not to come or those English teachers who are having problems having nothing to do with English teaching.
I have dealt with cases involving stolen passports (refused, because the officer in charge was certain that the person in question had exchanged his passport for drugs), arrested English teachers, and people with massive bills following a sudden accident. I'm beginning to wonder just what — if anything — it takes for the embassy to actively get involved.
I would offer this advice for anyone coming to Korea: Get to know the police in your neighborhood (bring them a cold drink on a hot day or a hot drink on a cold day) and get to know someone who works in the embassy, if you can. The latter is harder, but it's helpful if you ever need it. Maybe.
The first one, though, is waaaaaaay helpful.
Nora:
"Given how they were already exposed to each other, further exposure to each other would make little difference in a case such as this, but it would lead to problems such as cooperation with quarantine."
I don't quite follow. Being exposed to somebody carrying an infectious disease does not automatically cause an infection. It was possible that one of the teachers had it, but the others were not sufficiently exposed to contract the flu.
Now that all of those quarantined are spending MORE time together in close proximity, it makes it very likely that ALL of them will be infected if one of them happened to be a flu carrier at the start.
Seeing as there are very few of these people to start with (and since their embassy doesn't care), it shouldn't be very hard for Korean authorities to force them to cooperate. The Japanese government certainly did not have a problem doing so with its quarantine program, which involved a lot more than 7 people.
Luckily, this flu is nothing to be afraid of, so the foreigners don't have to worry about dying due to a quarantine system that shows little regard for their individual safety.
I'm one of the quarantined.. and the embassy conversation was absolutely real.. Many of us do have phones and there are some Koreans from our group in the facility with us. They just segregated all of us.. we can't socialize anymore. I am sick, so I wasn't socializing anyway. I'm writing a bit of a blog myself: web.me.com/superacidjax, although the original one mentioned is much better. I'm frankly too sick to write much right now! They tested me today and gave me tamiflu -- just waiting on the results. If anyone wants any insider information.. let me know! superacidjax@me.com
Scott:
"I don't quite follow. Being exposed to somebody carrying an infectious disease does not automatically cause an infection. It was possible that one of the teachers had it, but the others were not sufficiently exposed to contract the flu."
That's possible; it would depend on how much contact they'd had with each other prior to realizing that one was infected.
There was one case of H1N1 in the dorms at the university I attend, and it was handled in a similar way. But Brian Dear says now they're completely segregated now, I guess including the ones not showing symptoms, so you may be right. [Brian Dear: Were they originally isolating the symptomatic from the non-symptomatic, or was everyone altogether?]
Josephine:
"Now that all of those quarantined are spending MORE time together in close proximity, it makes it very likely that ALL of them will be infected if one of them happened to be a flu carrier at the start."
If the symptomatic and the non-symptomatic were all together AND they had not had sufficient time together prior to the first diagnosis, then what you're saying may be correct.
Janice:
"Seeing as there are very few of these people to start with (and since their embassy doesn't care), it shouldn't be very hard for Korean authorities to force them to cooperate. The Japanese government certainly did not have a problem doing so with its quarantine program, which involved a lot more than 7 people."
Weren't they quarantining thirty people?
Janet:
"Luckily, this flu is nothing to be afraid of, so the foreigners don't have to worry about dying due to a quarantine system that shows little regard for their individual safety."
H1N1 is quite mild. 96% of those infected in Mexico survived.
Originally, the symptomatic people were in their own rooms while the rest of us shared rooms. However, a few of us were developing symptoms after the quarantine started (like me) so we'd be separated after the fact. The truth is that this system is pretty much spreading things relatively freely. The current system has the symptomatics on a separate floor and all of us are confined to our rooms. They're figuring it out as they go. I'm just glad that I have my box of Tamiflu finally.. so I don't have much to worry about, but still, there are others who are probably going to get it, but they aren't showing symptoms yet.
And for the record, it's 50+ people, with around 7-10 already having been sent to the hospital. I am aware of 4-5 confirmed cases. They're still waiting on my results, but I am likely going to be a confirmed case as well.
The bullshit thing is that, while there are some Koreans among us, most of the Koreans with whom we had contact are quarantined-in-place (at home.) It seems fairly xenophobic as Koreans have been getting infected just as easily as the foreigners. We didn't bring the flu from the US, it's likely (according to the epidemiologists) that we contracted this while transiting Narita. I for one, was in the transit area of that airport the same day that the Korean case (#5) was passing through there.
Brian Dear, hopes and prayers that you and your friends get better real soon.
Brian Dear, do you have homes where you can be quarantined-in-place?
Nearly all of us have apartments..
Thanks for the kind wishes guys! Tamiflu and rest will be the key..
I posted an update here.
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/05/some-updates-on-english-teachers.htmlI'll continue the update posts as need be.
Hello, I am one of the folks in quarantine. I think there is some confusion about contacting the embassy and such.
Everyone here that I've talked to is completely fine and understanding about being in the quarantine. No one here wants anyone else to get sick.
Our thought in contacting the embassy was just that they should know. Just in case something happens to someone, or someone from their emergency contacts needs to be contacted. It was just a means of passing information and making the embassy aware.
I think some folks were really shocked at/ got a kick out of their response.
Also because the people running this seem to be "winging it", we thought it might help with solidifying common quarantine procedure.
Thanks for the visit and for keeping us in the loop. (You too, Brian. Funny coincidence, we just became "acquainted" online.)
That's where I'm coming from with the embassy . . . seems like they'd be interested.
To those who are quarentined, it may help if you call and ask to speak directly to the duty officer. Operators are frequently local staff with local customer service values. I can assure you that the Embassy does want to know. (With the caveat that, as it seems ya'll are being taken care of competently, they probably won't take much action.)
Our son is among those quarantined. Before he left for Korea, he received no warning from the US Govt not to go.
When we hadn't heard from him in 2 days, we called the US Embassy in Seoul Sunday night (Monday afternoon Seoul time) and the Duty Officer was very helpful. She seemed to have some knowledge of the facility (dorm-style, no individual phones, sporadic internet access) and had a list of names of those who were there, which they had received from the Korean government. She gave us the name and phone number to the place so we could call him. At that time, they all had free run of the place which no longer seems true.
We just hope that no one else gets sick and that they can get out of there soon! Brian Dear - we hope you get better quickly! If you can, say HI to Matt from Denver for us, please.
Denverfolks.. I passed along your hello to Matt!
Thanks, Brian. I see that you've moved to another place - hopefully you'll get well and get on with the rest of your life soon! Best of luck to you!
Thanks, Brian! We see that you've moved out to another facility. Hopefully you'll be well and out in the world and able to get on with the rest of your life soon! Best of luck to you!
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