Congratulations "Other!" Made with the "Create A Graph" page on the National Center for Education Statistics website.
I'll keep my comments brief, and because there are few things more tedious to most readers than bloggers blogging about blogging, I'll use hide the rest of them behind the "Read More" button. You can also see what Kimchi Icecream and Korean Rum Diary had to say.
Clearly 10 Magazine underestimated the response. They should have known that one quick way to get bloggers worked up is to do something that somehow tries to rank them. Nearly two years ago we had a similar to-do when London Korea Links did a post on "Who's who in the Korean blogosphere." It created a list of top blogs based on a "blog juice" formula, and generated a lot of discussion based on how selective and outdated it was, and on its description of The Marmot's Hole as "Undoubtedly the original and best general-purpose blog about Korea."
This wasn't a poll on the "best" blog in Korea, but about readers' favorite, so it wasn't really something you could campaign for outside of directing your own readers to the poll. 10 Magazine's Stephen Revere said as much on Chris in South Korea's post:
Let's make one thing clear: THIS WAS INHERENTLY A POPULARITY CONTEST. You can make fun of a "popularity contest" all you want, but the first pizza joint you visit in a new town will be the most recommended one every time. We asked our readers, "What's your favorite blog?", not what's the best blog, as implied above.
It is obvious to everyone that the top three blogs used some of their leverage with their readers and other networks to increase their votes - and it worked. We wish more had done it. It does not invalidate their numbers, but only shows how avid their fans are.
But by disqualifying people who were trying to use their leverage to gain votes, the magazine ultimately defeated that purpose. Yeah, some of those blogs were going about it the wrong way, and were cursing 10 Magazine because they were too fucking stupid to understand the rules, but still. Everybody was promoting the poll, even if they were playing it diplomatic by encouraging votes for other people, because a vote for one person wasn't a vote for another.
Another response is that the poll was too buddy-buddy, highlighting all the old favorites without making room for lesser-known sites. I guess they're right in that the first blogs listed on the poll were ones we all know, but in the end a lot of blogs nobody's ever heard of got a ton of votes. I got a kick out of what commenter "Gary Norris" wrote on Chris' site:
let's here it for the ad-free blogs that made the list, and the blogs focused on writing about the author's experiences rather than attempting to be a news source. lots of people writing about their travels and most of it is worth reading.
blogrolling shrinks a reader's possible experience. we all know that you don't get on most bloggers' rolls unless you reciprocate. everybody's rolls end up looking exactly the same without at all being anywhere near representative of the actual writing community. it creates a community of like-minded, friendly sameness rather than a diverse, multi-discourse community. just my opinion, but i gave up popularity polling, crush lists, and blogrolling years ago. ad-free blogging is the way to go.
Well, I have ads on my site, and I try to be a news source at times, so I'll take some exception to his comment. Funny, because in a post I did on May 5, 2008 based on the "blog juice" crap I said basically the same thing, criticizing the uniformity of blogrolls, how they never seemed to change, and how many of the blogs considered among the best in the country weren't even updated anymore. But now I'm on the other side, being considered a "big" blog, and taking shit from people because I'm selective about my blogroll. I say "no" to link-swaps for a lot of reasons, but mostly because a lot of the new blogs people tell me about don't stay around long enough to deserve a place next to Gusts of Popular Feeling and Page F30. Hell, one of the guys who emailed me in 2010 about link-swapping already stopped updating. I'm interested in blogs that are informative, interesting, and original, ones that don't simpy regurgitate news or piggy-back on other bloggers, and ones that demonstrate staying power. I'm not averse to new[ly-emerged] blogs, though: I added Seoul Suburban to my sidebar after getting an email from him because I think the site's got a good idea, and I learned about Ruby Clicks from the poll. I'm not doing an exhaustive list of Korea-related blogs---there's one right here---but rather listing a few dozen I think my visitors might want to read. I've been good about sharing new sites, so I don't owe anybody an apology and won't given an explanation, um, beyond the one I just gave.
I'll also just say that you shouldn't blog purely for numbers. You won't get a lot of hits to your K-blog anyway, but as your readers increase you find yourself increasingly beholden to them. Just look at all the "angry" bloggers that became trendy late last year. They spend all their time defending themselves and justifying their positions, to readers who don't give a damn anyway, that they alienate the people who appreciated what they were doing in the first place. My site has a decent readership compared to many K-blogs---but still about 1/4th that of The Marmot's Hole---but along the way I've made some adjustments to accommodate them. People used to hate me for being angry, but now people complain because I've gone soft. Both camps are welcome to go fuck themselves, and to check out the beautiful azalea festival on Yeosu's Yeongchuisan starting tomorrow. I'm happy with where I am now, but it's easy to get too big for your own good.
In his post, Chris looks at the Alexa ranking of the blogs in the poll, and many others that weren't. There's one important thing we all can take away from that list: really, nobody cares. I mean, I'm ranked 80,522nd in the world, hardly something worth writing home about. But, I'm reminded of something reader Nik Trapani said when I met him for a few beers in February. We were talking about numbers and he said something like, I'd be happy to have 1,500 people a day listen to what I have to say. I'd be lying if I wrote I wasn't upset about finishing
19 comments:
I like to think I came out a winner by being lumped in "Others."
Excellent post Brian, and so I just have one small piece of advice for beginner bloggers to add about blogrolls: they're really not as important as many people think.
Back when I was starting out, I thought that if only a big blog like The Marmot's Hole included mine, then suddenly the popularity of my blog would take off. In the end though, even today it's very rarely that I'll get more than 20 hits a day from there, pretty small change for a 4500 hits a day average. Actually, curiously, I get just as many blogroll hits from Roboseyo! :D
Much much more important then, is when big bloggers link to you in a post, but to do that they need to know who you are first. And the best way of getting known is by becoming an active commenter on their sites, after which I guarantee that they'll check out your blog at least once, and subscribe to it in a reader if they like it. And if you write about something relevant to the post they're working on, then they'll probably mention you (and if not, give up on them and move on, the *cough* ungrateful bastards).
Hence I don't actually have a blogroll - albeit at first because I was sick of all the bullshit with them to be frank - but I link to other blogs all the time, and probably 9/10s of which I first found because they commented on mine. True, usually I'm linking to the same ones, but then my niches are pretty narrow.
Thanks, James. I didn't put in all my thoughts about blogging, blogrolls, and link-swaps, because the post was getting unwieldy and off-topic.
I'm tempted to get rid of my blogroll, too, and I'm doing some tinkering with the sidebar that may move me closer in that direction. In a lot of ways, it's unnecessary. If I were to take The Marmot's Hole or Roboseyo off, they'd see no difference in traffic. They're already part of many people's daily schedule, and since I link to them a lot anyway in my posts, nobody's going to forget about them.
Adding a ton of blogs might make me popular . . . with the people emailing me, but it's a disservice to the people I already have listed. Looking back at the emails I've gotten, and even at the new blogs in 2009 I linked to, the majority are either no longer active or have had long periods of inactivity.
I agree with everything Roboseyo wrote in his post, so I'll just direct people to it:
http://roboseyo.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-to-get-noticed-in-k-blogland.html
If you're starting out and want to get noticed, it helps a lot to participate on others' sites by commenting or linking. My sitemeter only picks up my last 100visitors, so I can't keep track of everybody, but when I see somebody linking to me I'll take a look at their site.
And, look, I understand that not all blogs are made for a huge audience. Most blogs are written for friends and family, and I appreciate that. That doesn't disqualify them from being good: on the contrary, if they do a good job of introducing Korea or showing off their neighborhood, job, lifestyle, etc., I think they're excellent.
I should also add, since some people need the lesson, that being rude to me or spamming my site with your link is an excellent way to guarantee I'll never visit or promote your site. The good thing is most people don't last more than a few months, so we don't have to put up with them for long.
I'm fascinated by the phenomena that is The Marmot's Hole.
The writers there are awful and I question the maturity and education level of half of them and yet everyone loves them. I honestly don't get it. I can't get through their front page half the time without being worked up into a rage because of how dumb I think those guys are. It boggles the mind.
I'd like to respond sincerely to This is Me Posting's comments about the Marmot's Hole.
I get tired of most of the comments as well, but there is a lot to say in favor of the Hole:
First off, Robert is an excellent writer. He understands Korea. He's got an intelligent, considered take on what goes on here.
Second, I think the site is the most popular blog among older expats who live in country, and will be here long after many of us are gone. It doesn't attract younger newbies because it's emphasis is more on long-term trends, less on the short term. It's not the site for Itaewon drinkers who will be going back to Canada this year, or Haebangchon complainers who don't know any more Korean other than how to order a beer.
Third, there are some great commenters on there. I would include Michael Breen, Brendon Carr, Wedge, Sperwer, and I Heart Blue Balls in that category. These people have a lot of savvy dealing with the Korean way of doing things, and are good at spotting and calling bullshit when appropriate.
Fourth, all the big news stories are followed, and it's the best place to go to get good takes on the events of the day.
Thank you for reading my essay.
Whitey wrote:
First off, Robert is an excellent writer. He understands Korea. He's got an intelligent, considered take on what goes on here.
I second that. And the guy is hella humble, too. This most-popular-blog thing just happened completely by chance for him and he still doesn't know what to make of it. Almost to a fault (i.e., he doesn't always recognize what makes him a good blogger, and therefore he has trouble replicating it in guest bloggers, though some of his guest bloggers now — Wangkon, Sonagi, etc. — are generally pretty good).
Second, I think the site is the most popular blog among older expats who live in country, and will be here long after many of us are gone. It doesn't attract younger newbies because it's emphasis is more on long-term trends, less on the short term.
That's true, and I think that reflects why the blog may seem to have an anti-NSET feel to it: Some of the personalities there have seen all the b.s. happening to and coming from the NSETs, and they just groan at some of the stuff.
That said, Brendon Carr, despite his bluster about English teachers, took a good chunk of his time one Sunday to help me help some English-teaching acquaintances of a friend when they were in some serious trouble, and it was all out of the goodness of his heart.
Third, there are some great commenters on there. I would include Michael Breen, Brendon Carr, Wedge, Sperwer, and I Heart Blue Balls in that category.
Agreed with everyone except Sperwer, whose specialty is just making angry comments at people who he dislikes. His confidence that what he's saying is right doesn't make it correct, and it just tends to hijack the threads. In this comment, for example, he shoots his mouth of by saying I "badly cribbed" someone else's opinion piece when in fact I had posted the meat of my opinion three months before that other guy, something that would have been clear had he read what I wrote instead of just shooting his mouth off when he saw who wrote it, as he does with some of the regular commenters. Quite typical, but more to the point, it derails threads to the point that they deteriorate into snipe fests rather than something edifying or informative.
Rant off. Sorry.
These people have a lot of savvy dealing with the Korean way of doing things, and are good at spotting and calling bullshit when appropriate.
And even when it's not appropriate. Who calls bullshit on the bullshitters?
Anyhoo, The Marmot's Hole isn't for everybody. I think Brian is to be commended for having a good, useful forum that focuses so heavily on information of use to (a) English teachers across the peninsula and (b) residents of the southwestern part of the country, which would otherwise be largely neglected. Even if someone doesn't like your opinions, Brian, you've done far more positive for Korea's image — particularly Chŏlla's image — than negative, by leaps and bounds, and that should make some people happy if they can just get over themselves.
And I second what Julian Warmington said: I don't think the takeaway message here is that you can't speak your mind in a public forum, especially since you did not lose your job nor did Immigration actually punish you (only inconvenienced you).
That said, go to the NHRCK and see what (if anything) they think can be done.
Sorry, I was conflating two different posts up there.
If people e-mail me, I put them on my RSS feed, but they have to impress me with what I see while going through my RSS feeds before they get on my sidebar.
James; I think the way my sidebar works, with most recent posts, is the reason I send lots of hits to my blog buddies.
As for the 10 Magazine poll... at first I got worked up about what was going on there, but then I just had to stand back and admire how completely one guy trolled that well-meaning poll and took it in such a totally unexpected direction.
That's the problem, I guess, with these kinds of polls: either you make it so that anybody can qualify, in which case you're vulnerable to being hijacked, or you add a little editorial control to the proceedings (cf: the Golden Klogs) and get accused of handing awards out to your friends, no matter how fair and objective you try to be in the process (and I tried).
What I think is funny is all the people who think that there's some elite group of K-bloggers. The reality is that the "name" blogs are the ones who have stuck around. They've stayed in Korea, and they're persistent. And we know each other because we just do. Some of us are tired of making friends who just leave in a year, and a lot of the people who stick around and have something invested in the country are the ones we're likely to bond with.
I, too, used to be an ad-free blog, but I got tired of footing the bill so that people can troll my site and get all the info I put in without giving anything in return. The people who praise "ad-free" blogging are likely people who think they deserve everything for free. No one blames a business or even some middle aged lady selling Beanie Babies on eBay for making a little money from their work. But when a blogger puts up an ad to pay for increasing server fees, they're a sell out.
K-bloggers are not an exclusive group. I don't speak for everyone, but the attitude with the bloggers I know is that we pull in anyone. We're the band geeks of the Korean expat scene, but people act like we're an exclusive clique. Hardly.
Like Brian, I'm always looking out for new and interesting blogs to read and post about. But I'm not going to link to each and every one. Gotten burned that way. I work a full-time job and do freelance work on my off-time. I don't have a free hour each day to sift through which blogs are out there and which ones have given up.
But seriously, if you approach just any blogger, it's likely we'll put you on our blogroll and buy you a beer.
Keep up the good writing :) You're entries are highly useful for foreigners/gyopos in korea :) I've read a lot of blogs about living in korea but this one is by far the best :) Certainly helps fit into their culture better :) I think your blog was the first to actually mention a city other than seoul haha... Jellanamdo.. that's very original compared to some of the other blog names :)
While K-blogs may not generally get a lot of traffic outside of Dae Han Min Guk, good writing that interests / fascinates people wins out. Being on a bigger platform helps to get that writing seen / acknowledged.
Regarding Alexa: their methodology isn't perfect, but it does give some interesting results. Numbers definitely aren't everything - but they can sure open doors.
As for 'selling out' because one places ads on their websites, people have a right to earn money in any legal / ethical way they can. So long as the ads don't directly, indirectly, or infer a conflict of interest - and they're noted as ads, not blogposts or somesuch - they're cool by me. Will your readers see them? Not if they're using AdBlock on Firefox....
I don't want to make it seem like there's a rivalry with The Marmot's Hole, because there isn't. We overlap in some ways, diverge in others. We've never had any conflict, except when he got mad at me for criticizing his guest bloggers, and when I've been critical of his site it's nothing against him. I've never met him, but he's somebody who's meant a lot to the country's English-speakers for years, and ought to be shown the respect he's earned.
The Marmot's Hole came up in 2008 because people were treating his site like the only game in town, and talking up his site when even back then he was giving a lot of room to guest bloggers and commenters. That hasn't changed, though I think the quality's gotten a little better, but you'll still notice long stretches where he doesn't write anything, but instead you've got several posts a day from guest bloggers. They often have interesting stuff---sometimes it's stupid---but they're posts that should complement more news and commentary on the blog considered the best, not be the focus.
I can appreciate the work of some of those bloggers. I'm even friends with one on Facebook. But my thing in 2008 was that none of them were stepping in to provide the same content as Robert Koehler when he was away. If you've got the best blog in the country and are missing all the stories, maybe it's not the best anymore.
In his defense, he doesn't promote himself as the best. He's grown to that size because of 7 years (I think) of blogging, advantageous jobs in real life, his Korean-language skills, and other factors. But it's others who kind of lazily think he's the only game in town I find frustrating.
No site can be everything to everybody. I don't do this for a living, and I don't have the resources to cover every story, or go out and get all the original stuff I'd like. I rarely write about K-pop, I almost never write about North Korea, and I don't often write about local politics, and these are arguably the three biggest sections you'd want to have on "the" K-blog. I write on things that interest me, and things my readers find interesting. Some people might not like reading about festivals, or motels, or local news out of Gangjin, and they might ask why I spend time writing about those things. Well, I trust that everybody can read the paper on their own, and has a couple dozen other blogs in their Google Reader, so there's no sense in me doing poorly what others might do better.
I didn't have ads on my site for the first year-and-a-half. I thought they looked stupid, desperate, and I didn't want three pictures of that woman from KoreanCupid on every page.
It was kushibo who mentioned I give it a try, and a Facebook friend who encouraged me more. In my opinion they're not in-your-face, they don't dominate the content, and I'm not trying to trick people by camoflauging them as my own content. Even the banner ad isn't too bad. As I've gotten more traffic, the ads have changed, bringing up some pretty interesting ones. I don't get that ubiquitous KoreaCupid one much anymore.
But, another reason I decided to put them up is because everyone else was making money off my content. When other blogs or sites link to my stuff, it brings in traffic and revenue for them.
You need to understand bloggers with ads haven't sold out. Some blogs and sites look really shitty with all their ads cluttering up their page, and to be honest pages that only exist to make money are ones I avoid. But, I average less than a dollar a day from my site. The KoreanClass101 ads pay out when you hit $50, and I've been stuck at fortysomething for the past four months so I've yet to see a check from them. We don't put them there to get rich, we put them there to get a little check in the mail once or twice a year, to earn something for what we would be doing anyway for free.
But I get weird when I check my stats. I get excited, like "oooh, I made $1.25 today!" In what other line of work, in what other context would somebody be happy about making $1.25 a day? When else would I agree to work for five cents an hour?
Who's saying that putting ads on a page is selling out? I've been trying to put ads on my blog for a while but google made adsense rediculoulsy complicated, you have to fill out tax forms and give American phone numbers and do a lot of verification.
Not that it would make any difference, people don't really read my blog since I don't really have anything to say. I live in Jinju, and I learned that the Jinju lantern festival was canceled from reading "Brian in Jeollanamdo." So really just for providing some useful information like that this site deserves to make some money. Having said that I'm going to go click on some Korean cupid banners.
There to show my apreciation for this blog, I think I just made you about a dollar by clicking on everything.
3gyupsal wrote:
There to show my apreciation for this blog, I think I just made you about a dollar by clicking on everything.
You're welcome to drop by my site anytime, 3gyupsal.
3gyupsal, if only more users were as generous as you. 감사합니다.
Just to add to Brian's comments about Ads, I actually was ad free for quite a while when I was using the free blogging platform provided by Lycos. Then when I began to host my own site with Wordpress and pay for my own bandwidth that quickly changed my mind.
As long as the ads are not obnoxious regular readers will just zone them out after a while anyway.
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