On Chris in South Korea on April 5th we read about a new teachers' organization forming out of Busan, announced through a post and series of emails that highlighted the personality conflicts among the groups' members. The conversation continues, somewhat, on Roboseyo, and the he-said, they-said has reached my inbox with a lengthy email I'm still debating posting. And, it continues on a lengthy Dave's ESL Cafe post that, if the intention was to endear people to Busan's FREED, accomplished the exact opposite.
That Dave's ESL Cafe post from "BUSTAK" starts off with the email from Barbara Waldern we read on Chris in South Korea. The poster felt strongly enough about it that he or she posted it on two different threads, the other one getting locked. The email, in case you misssed it, opens with a statement of purpose:
It has become very evident that an alternate teachers' organization is needed in order for teachers, especially those from abroad on contract in Korea, to organize and support each other. A collaboration began to establish FREED Busan, the First Response for English Educators, and the result so far is FREED in Busan and Gyeongnam-do. The purpose is to keep focused on the issues of teachers from abroad and build and maintain a service especially to address such issues because discrimination and other abuses against foreign teachers continue. It intends to be a first response system for newcomers especially. It will not be afraid to discuss the situation of foreign teachers.
And closes three paragraphs later with a jab at ATEK:
Disregard the statement made by Greg Dolezal as President of ATEK. His statement about the establishment of FREED and the people involved are erroneous as it is based on hearsay and guesses. ATEK had no business speaking for FREED. There has been no collaboration and will not be collaboration with ATEK about FREED. For further clarification, national ATEK leaders (through members@atek.or.kr) stole my email account and Facebook group page, which is criminal, and complaints are being made to authorities.
The "statement made by Greg Dolezal" was posted on Chris in South Korea as well, the passage of interest being:
A week or so ago, Barbara Waldern (former chair of the Busan PMA), Stephanie White (my competitor from Daegu in the first presidential election), and John Wurth (former chair of the Gyeonggi PMA) have formed their own human rights association that is intended to serve expat English teachers in Korea. They are focused specifically on advocacy.
It should be noted that both Ms. White and Mr. Wurth have both denied being involved with FREED in the capacity alleged by Mr. Dolezal. Ms. White's reply was included on Chris in South Korea's post, and Mr. Wurth replied in part as a comment.
The rest of the 3,971-word post is comprised of the founding charter, and two letters from FREED, the first of which from Ms. Waldern aiming to serve as
Refutation of untruthful remarks amounting to slander on the part of Greg Dolezal, national ATEK President, through his email campaign to defend defenseless actions against fellow officers and teachers with ATEK
and the second containing an exchange between Dolezal and an ATEK member, quoted by an unknown third party, followed by a series of refutations by Ms. Walden and prefaced on Dave's with:
Since Greg Dolezal, President of ATEK (with 25 votes nationally of a manipulated vote!), continues to circulated slander against Barbara Waldern, the founder of FREED, I am refuting the many untruths and slanderous statements he his making around the country. This is long, but it is necessarily so. I'll answer these attacks once. Unlike Greg, I have not been circulating emails all over the country to plead or spread poison. BW
I won't quote the entire exchange, and will simply direct you to Dave's to read it if you want. I've saved it in case it gets pulled.
But what I will share are some responses from Dave's users. From the duplicate thread that was locked is PatrickGHBusan:
How does this help anyone?
This public spat between ATEK, and the people who want to launch FREED should be kept private. This sure does not help "teachers" in any way, shape or form.
The tone of this thread is also disturbing due to the highly emotional vibe that permeates the messages written by Mrs Walden. For all its initial troubles, ATEK had been quietly doing better for the past few months. From what we can read here and in the blogs I listed above the president of ATEK sounds cool headed and seems to want to refuse to dive into the mud pit through insults. Good for him.
From rollo:
ATEK has split into two feuding factions. These were the folks who were going to represent 17,000 teachers? They cant even agree among each other.
From CentralCali:
Well, the US Congress does represent quite a lot of people and yet the members of Congress are pretty fractious, too. I think a lot of people are reading ATEK's mission statement and seeing it as a fait accompli. That organization says they want to become the group that can be the face, so to speak, of the NETs/GETs here. This public feuding is quite ridiculous, though. The publication of the E-mails in the OP of this thread, without a doubt, is quite unprofessional and undignified.
And from vaticanhotline:
This kind of reminds me of the People's Front of Judaea and the Judaean People's Front.
From the other thread, TheUrbanMyth:
And this just goes to show why a union for foreign teachers (one that actually will accomplish something) is never going to work here.
Too many people wanting to be chiefs.
From ttompatz:
Just another pissing match... like 100 that have gone before and many more who I am sure will come after
.... welcome to the ranks of yet another failed "union" attempt.
From YoungFRANKenstein:
The whinging OP is a good reason not to follow the current leadership of EITHER group.
How old are they? Ten? When everyone decides to grow up and act like mature adults, let us know
From T-J:
I see this one going nowhere in a real hurry.
ATEK on the other hand, while on life support, has managed to make it a year. There is still a pulse and they are focused on building their membership. Down, but not out, time will tell.
From rollo:
This would be funny except these folks wanted to negotiate with the government.
From sulperman:
A lot of people really like their lives to be dramatic, don't they....
I don't want these people working for me or representing me in any way. Thanks but no thanks. Get back to your own lives, please.
From Senior:
Some people either consciously, or unintentionally turn their lives into a soap opera.
From Goon-Yang:
Awesome! Another organization that will speak for me, but doesn't really care what I want. All these "we speak for all teachers in Korea" can bite my white a$$.
Noobs leading n00bs.
From pocariboy73:
Let ATEK and FREED battle it out. If they think the national media and the Korean populace at large actually gives a rats ass, then they're more delusional than I originally thought.
In the end, both group will end up looking even more pathetic than now. Hard to imagine that. LOL
Good riddance to both of them.
And it continues like that for another page. I edited some of the comments for brevity, but didn't cherry pick the nasty ones from a wider selection. The reputation of Dave's ESL Cafe has gone downhill for years, and is considered a hotbed of negativity and immaturity by a good many teachers. Nonetheless, there still are some sensible and experience teachers posting there, many of whom spoke up on those two threads. If the goal of those two posts was to raise awareness about the new group, it succeeded. Thing is, the only thing people are aware of is FREED being more interested in bickering than in accomplishments.
I've received emails from parties involved, and I'm still debating whether I want to print them, and continue the trend of ATEK and its leaders using blogs as their mouthpiece. I'm not interested in providing yet another forum for leaders to bicker publically, and in poisoning the market further for teachers' organizations. I'm not, nor have I ever been, a member of ATEK, and though I see potential in having an organization for teachers, was not sold on the idea of ATEK at the beginning and have seen nothing since to warrant an endorsement. There is a hell of a lot of good work going on in the quote-unquote community, by Roboseyo and Gusts of Popular Feeling and Ben Wagner . . . and by all those teachers, professors, volunteers, neighbors, and friends who aren't known by name, and who prefer to keep it that way. It would behoove organizations not to assume these good deeds and these relationships don't exist already.
16 comments:
Turned the clock back in order to keep the airport story atop the page.
Don't post the emails. Keep the fighting and whinging over at Dave's where it belongs.
I don't have any desire to see more of that bunch of goddamned babies who want to "represent" me.
Brian, please strike my name from your blog. Greg sent that email out with my name in it without verifing if I was indeed a founding member of FREED or not. I do not want my name associated with this public bickering. Greg promised me a retraction in an email, but has since refused to do so. Please do not "spread" my name with this mess.
And yes, the ATEK election was rigged and I'm SO SO SO glad I backed out then and am still out of it.
Stephannie, I took your name off at first, but then put it back on to keep the email as-is. I've added two lines saying both you and Mr. Wurth have denied being involved in FREED in the capacity alleged by Mr. Dolezal. I'd like to keep the original email as an accurate record of what was written.
When Joe had Tony from ATEK on way way back I was really impressed with their ideas and their creative solutions to various problems. I thought "maybe this one has a shot". Alas.
Anyone remember the Berlitz Korea union? Is that still going?
But we have to fall back on the reality. Unlike the 3D workers, if you don't like your conditions in Korea, you can always move back to a nice safe nation.
However much I don't like that guy who's behind the F-visa group, it might be the case they work better together because they're pot committed to Korea. They have a wife/husband/child here. It's one thing to throw your clothes, Korean movie DVDs, and knock off LV stuff into a suitcase and flop back home at mom's. It's another thing to move you, a spouse, and maybe a child back to your country because your boss hasn't paid you in two months.
It seems to me (and I'm very much a disinterested observer in this, being as I don't teach English) that the people vying to represent the interests of English teachers are actually much more interested in getting attention for themselves and validating their somewhat persecuted world-view. They have demonstrated themselves to be completely unfit for purpose and with every further word of antagonistic dialogue are actually harming the image and reputation of the people they are claiming to want to help. I think the expat community should come together as one for the sole purpose of getting them to shut the fuck up.
I would like the opportunity to give a formal response to the accusations against me personally and the organization I represent.
Something critical has been left out of this thread on every medial channel - I have never published the negative personal attacks and emails directed at me and my fiancee by the three aggrieved parties. I have never published a detailed summary of my side of the story. I have instead choosen to keep such matter private. Ironically, to protect everyone involved - certainly not me.
These petty remarks, based on fiction serve only one master - ego. That's why I haven't engaged or told my story.
I think the office I hold, the organization I represent, and my own personal dignity deserve better. So do the readers of this blog and those who publish blogs or any other media.
I don't want a soap opera. I want to help teachers. let's debate that instead.
If everyone wants to facts of this incident eventually I will tell my story. I had higher expectations of everyone's interest in this story.
We went to a mediator (not choosen by me incidentally) and he opined in my favor. I have that document which I have held close to my chest out of misplaced respect. Furthermore there was an internal ethic investigation which also supports my argument. That also remains unpublished - because it should.
Before you print someone's rants - think of the use to the community. how can this and other blgs serve the community?
Is it entertainment or news? Is there some altruistic goal? I have always admired the work of bloggers in Korea - I think they serve animportant role. I think discussions like this lower the dialog ultimate and result in the destruction of what I think we all agree needs to be established - a way to help teachers ahve a better life in Korea, to be informed, and to have real options when things don't go well.
ATEK is offering a way to legal legal services on the cheap - let's discuss that instead.
Puffin Watch:
But we have to fall back on the reality. Unlike the 3D workers, if you don't like your conditions in Korea, you can always move back to a nice safe nation.
Frankly, Puffin Man, I find that viewpoint unacceptable. Improvement does not come from a love-it-or-leave-it attitude.
The problem is that ATEK was (or at least seemed to be) dominated by a group more interested in chasing windmills than going to the heart of what really causes the problems that exist for English teachers and other anglophones in Korea.
It didn't help that they appeared largely clueless about how to build bridges that go somewhere, and so much time and effort was wasted on AES, as if ATEK existed primarily as a counter to AES and not as a "benevolent society" of sorts to better the lives and professional conditions of the people teaching English.
I'm not blaming any one individual, and I have hope for the organization, but it needs to be transparent and its membership pragmatic. Are they up to the task?
I certainly don't want any drama. I never have. I don't want a battle - thus far I have refused to battle. What I want is officers who can work together, members who vote, and a chance to build. We are an all-volunteer association and that comes with challenges.
But we have to fall back on the reality. Unlike the 3D workers, if you don't like your conditions in Korea, you can always move back to a nice safe nation.
Frankly, Puffin Man, I find that viewpoint unacceptable. Improvement does not come from a love-it-or-leave-it attitude.
Let me be clear I'm stating what I think is the psychological reality, not offering prescriptive advice. So, one should not make the classic error of confusing "is" with "aught".
3D workers are like the greek warriors who burn their boats on the shore. We don't burn our boats. Most always have the choice to run instead of fight.
But I'll disagree with your final sentence. The withdrawal of your labor has long been a valid and effective method of change. When it's hard to get good people to work at McDonald's, McDonald's is forced to improve pay and working conditions.
Certainly, direct action can bring change quicker. But leaving a bad job and a nation with unfavorable labor conditions for foreigners is as valid a solution.
Your take on ATEK I'm in agreement with, however. My question is why have such representative bodies had such a history of failure? What is the underlying psychology at play? At the end of the day, most have better places to go if the situation is bad.
The question is also why has a group like KOTESOL largely been a success? If the "herding cats" analogy was true, I'd have expected KOTESOL to last a couple years tops. Is it KOTESOL attracts people who are interested in improving their own skills where as ATEK can attract a critical mass of people who want rights but don't understand responsibilities?
"And yes, the ATEK election was rigged and I'm SO SO SO glad I backed out then and am still out of it." --Stephanie
The election was not rigged but there was a sore loser.
The voter turn-out was low. That much is true. It was disappointing for all of us. Look at the current blaws vote....34 votes. That's the reality.
I had more supporters in my home PMA because I hustled and recruited general members there. I'm also certain that some people voted for me because I was not Stephanie White, who they viewed as polemical.
The results of the election were published and there were no complaints at that time. There was an election committee and the votes we verified by them.
In fact, the Council even agreed to allow to let Stephanie run when she wasn't a member of a registered PMA based on my suggestion. I agreed to let verified members who are not part of a PMA to vote so that people she knew in Daegu could vote - though it was against the current bylaws.
Some people who were not members attempted to vote. I've said this countless times - belonging to our Facebook site is not membershup in the association. You have to sign the membership agreeement.
@Puffin Watch: I can't say I entirely understand the history of potential / actual foreign teachers groups or unions. Perhaps that's a subject Matt from Gusts of Popular Feeling could contribute towards.
"But I'll disagree with your final sentence. The withdrawal of your labor has long been a valid and effective method of change. When it's hard to get good people to work at McDonald's, McDonald's is forced to improve pay and working conditions."
No it's not. It's simply forced to find new workers willing to accept their terms, conditions, and wages. In a down economy you'd be amazed what some uninformed people will accept.
There's a battle going on here - but it shouldn't be between foreign English teachers. It's time to refocus efforts on the people that make one's life harder - corrupt employers, bad rules, unfair laws, and the like.
Let FREED do what they like - if they get to a point where they're getting results, I'll be the first to talk about them. If ATEK is getting results, I'll be talking about them (as I have quite recently. Both groups are still small enough to avoid most mainstream activity, but that can change with time.
No it's not. It's simply forced to find new workers willing to accept their terms, conditions, and wages. In a down economy you'd be amazed what some uninformed people will accept.
High turnover rates are a big cost to any company. Having to recruit a foreigner teacher, fly him over, etc. have an impact on the bottom line. This is another reason why withdrawal of labor is effective.
And I stand to be amazed how many uniformed people come to Korea vs how many who have a reasonable appreciation of the score and accept the risks. As I've stated previously, someone should do a thesis type study on what E2 teachers really know about Korea before they come. We all have anecdotes but little data. Before the Korean government enacts laws to teach E2 teachers about Korean ways/history/language or E2 teachers demand laws to protect clueless E2 teachers, let's find out if there's really a need.
My view, I would certainly hope any university educated adult applying for a job in Korea does some research about Korea on the net and discovers the risks. Your own blog offers all kinds of great information about the pitfalls and I see a lot of people emailing you with great questions before they set foot in country.
But in a down economy, if they accept wages and conditions with eyes wide open, then I'm not sure there's an issue there.
It's like I might finding frying burgers for $5 is acceptable work. Sure I'd like to work in advertising but I'm newly arrived in this country and $5 is better than what I can get in my home country of Windsoradia. A group comes along and says "we're going to change things so your wage is $10 plus health benefits". Great. But then my Fry Hut closes down because Fry Hut can't afford the new labor costs. Or worse, someone with a university education poaches my job because $10 + health benefits suddenly seems acceptable. Not sure they did me a great favor. Now what do I do?
One that latter point, careful what you wish for as it may come true. If Korea is too attractive, then loads of people with B.Eds might decide it's a valid option, squeezing out BAs.
Well, Greg, this ultimately wasn't a thread about ATEK. It might be "entertainment" . . . I see it as showing how one teachers' organization sees fit to behave. I hardly consider it "entertaining" to watch adults and educators behave that way, and consider it newsworthy for many readers who might be interested in learning who to avoid.
I dont make public comments I can't back up with proof.
Puffin Watch wrote:
Your take on ATEK I'm in agreement with, however. My question is why have such representative bodies had such a history of failure? What is the underlying psychology at play?
Off the top of my groggy head, I'd say that it's because such groups tend to be started and/or dominated initially by bomb-throwers than bridge-builders.
(And it doesn't help that said bomb-throwers seem to have the siege mentality that a lot of avid Dave's ESL or K-blog readers have thanks to the them-versus-us cognitive distortion that seems inevitably to come from the way anglophone-related topics are presented and discussed there.)
BT is easy, gets attention, and feels good; BB is hard, takes time, and gives casual observers plenty of opportunity to nitpick to death what you're doing.
WORD VERIFICATION: reararat: The program rat teachers employ to prevent rat teens from having excessive rat pregnancies.
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