KPOP boy group TVXQ's Jaejoong, who was being interviewed by a Japanese program during a photo shoot, yelled out, "Kimuchi!," the Japanese kimchee. This choice has aggravated many Koreans. Jaejoong is not the first to fall under criticism. Last year, Korean actor Jung Woo Sung upset his nation for spelling kimchi as "kimuchi" on a Japanese show
The Korean pronunciation of the Korean food is of course "kimchi" (김치), without that syllable added in the middle. But as every foreign English teacher in South Korea knows, your language gets altered when it enters another country. Get in the back of a cab and say "bus terminal" or "E-Mart" and see how far that gets you, or call up Domino's and ask for a "sausage pizza" using an unKoreanated accent and see how many 네?s they do before finally hanging up. Hell, plenty of times Korean English teachers and Korean students were telling me how to pronounce my native language because my words were incomprehensible without the extra vowels. And, um, hey netizens, you do know that Koreans often say "cheejuh" (치즈) when taking pictures, right, a clear violation and corruption of the word "cheese"? They usually do this jokingly around white faces, because the final syllable added to "cheejuh" neutralizes the smile forced by the first vowel.
I can go on for a few more pages like that, but this kind of crap---perpetrated by K-pop fans, not on too different a level from YouTube commenters---shows what's going to happen if they ever do reach their goal of globalizing kimchi, hansik, the language, and other aspects of Korean culture. People will change it to suit them, sometimes in ways the exporters consider unpleasant. Some English teachers here avoid the Korean pronunciations of foreign words as a point of pride, and I myself usually consider Koreanized "English" very harsh on the ears, but when speaking Korean, English-speakers are expected to adhere to those rules of pronunciation. A Korean encountering "Korean" culture overseas will be expected to take it on these foreign terms, like this singer correctly did. Acting like this guy on twitter
Kimchi's the most popular korean food. no jap's food! no kimuchi!
. . .
Can you ever hearing Kimuchi in Jap's restaurant? OMG! Kimuchi's worng word.Jap's worng pronunciation! You guys are jerks.
is unbecoming, and I hope those upset K-pop fans are simply doing what K-pop fans do best, and aren't representative of too many Koreans.
Since we're here, I don't consider much of what's in my "Bad English" category on the same level, because rather than bitching about different pronunciation I'm more against the unchecked use of Gibberlish and overuse of "English" in Korea.
68 comments:
Korean allows some final consonants (m, n, p, t/d, k, etc.), but Japanese has just the one (a final "n"). Score one for Korean!
Pity those poor Japanese retards, pronouncing even something as simple as the two-syllable "kimchi" as "ki-mu-chi". Their feeble writing system can't deal with it!
It would be like adding an extra vowel sound to "cheese" or choosing a "j" sound to replicate a "z" when an "s" would be so much more accurate.
Oh...oh, now wait a minute.
Ha that twitter guy if he's not real he's a brilliant parody of your typical vacant k-nationalist.
Do u know kimchi fridge? haha... it's special fridge only for Kimchi.
kimchi's healthy and diet food. because it is a scientifically proven fact that kimchi contains lots of vitamins and minerals.
Yes, there are many examples. Months ago I had that post looking at the claim that Hangeul is the perfect alphabet for fucking foreign words up the least, and how some Koreans take pride in saying "keopi" rather than "kohi" for "coffee."
I started following that guy on twitter on @koreangov's recommendation. @Koreangov-style posts, unintentionally.
This is exactly why I am fervently opposed to any globalization of Korean food. Damn barbarians.
Seeing the word "Jap" really grates on me, whether it comes from a native anglophone or a non-native English speaker.
I agree kushibo. Although I have a hard time using "gook" when saying "han gook" or "han gook in". Does Jap resonate as a vile insult when used by other Asians? Other Asians I know seem to say "jap" without shame. Oddly they'd never use the N word.
Asian-Canadians using it? Really?
I don't know any Asian-Americans who use that word, except as they would use the N-word.
It's offensive, and non-native English speakers are excused only up to the point where its offensiveness is explained to them. After that, it's bashing time.
Well, seeing what Koreans have done to pizza, coffee, and sandwiches, I'm not sure "globalization" of Korean food would go much worse.
'Globalizing' Korean food could only improve it.
Well, seeing what Koreans have done to pizza, coffee, and sandwiches, I'm not sure "globalization" of Korean food would go much worse.
You just listed three of the things I don't even touch in Korea. If a "Korean" restaurant in America does to Korean food what Koreans to do pizza, I will personally burn that restaurant down. David Chang is only one step away.
'Globalizing' Korean food could only improve it.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Korean food is immense and I would love to see more high quality Korean food available where I live. One's thing's for sure though, nobody will be able to pronounce it properly, and that's nobody's fault and there's nothing really that can be done about it.
@Stevie Bee
Agreed. 100%.
Globalize means you learn a langauge thats not Korean, speaking it well enough to get you a job in a foreign company in Gangnam, or to get accepted in an overseas program.
Think about what we define the word EDUCATION as in the west and what the locals call EDUCATION. Worlds apart. results are also worlds apart.
Korea had its expansion time the last time when the IMF problem occurs and Kim Dae Joong opened the gates of foreign investment yet again. By the way, DYNAMIC KOREA came as a result of that, foreign investment. All 3 jumps in Korea's economy in the last 50 years have occured with foreign investment. This is an industrial economy, not an intellectual one. Which is o.k. PAVV is a great tv. But to be fair, it is known that the Japanese and Koreans steal from each others electronics tech all the time. oh well
You cant win. Complaining and being the victim is in the local psyche. Anything to get a leg up. Ive been here for a while with a good job or two, but I know, youll never win.
Theres nothing really to do here. The stress is terrible. I heard that Eastern European countries also have terrible suicide and crime rates. Because they have nothing to do. Go to any coffee shop. Anyone not studying are just sitting around. If you can speak Korean, listen to the conversations.
Emotions run very high here, I think, because theres little else to focus on. Little to connect with. It may extreme, but when I see young people in the coffeeshops, it seems their waiting to die sometimes. Theres a very narrow path for people here. Hopefully, when alot of the elders die out, thetll get weaker. At least, Koreans economy is built up and theres more ammenities here now.
Given that as well, alot fo people tend to follow their parents and grandparents way of thinking, even though they dont live the same way. Conufcianism is not only a philospohy, it was a way to keep people in line, or it became that way, it seems.A Alot of world religions take simlar stances.
ok Im rambling, enough.
Kushibo, I'd have to say mostly my Asian friends not born in the USA/Canada used "jap" without really thinking it was wrong.
Fair enough. I'll grant that to a non-native English speaker, saying "Jap" may be no different than prefixing J- or K- in front of things to designate them as Japanese or Korean.
BUT... once they are informed that it is offensive in English, they should dispense with it forthwith, just as with, say, blackface, which has serious racist baggage in the US that may not be known to people outside, such that once they know that this is not something innocuous, they should stop.
7 twitter posts on one day about kimchi? He's a shining symbol of Korean patriotism!
This Korean pride or whatever they claim those kind of reactions are is starting to get on my nerves. A real push factor if you ask me!
A real push factor if you ask me!
Then I welcome it. Things like this can help us separate the thick-skinned from the precious little lotus blossoms.
Really, if this is the kind of thing that's high on your list of annoyances in life, then your life either isn't that bad or you're just a tad oversensitive.
When I was your age, BakaChi, I kept getting stopped by cops who thought I'd stolen whatever car I was driving at the time, and this was just a few years after we fled Compton because of the drive-by shootings. I wish some fervent KoKo handing out Tokto bracelets was the most annoying thing I could think of.
BUT... once they are informed that it is offensive in English, they should dispense with it forthwith,
Agreed. I make the point always that part of teaching a language is teaching how not to offend. You can't communicate if the other person is in shut down mode because he/she thinks you're uncouth or racist.
My friend was teaching ESL in Toronto and he and his Korean student were at a window. A black guy walked by and the Korean guy said "wassup nigga!" The guy couldn't hear him but my friend wondered why he'd even say that. "Oh, I've seen that in rap videos."
brian i swear i think your a tool
your so bias towards japan b/c your wife or fiancee is japanese.
When japanese people call kimchi kimuchi they literally believe that kimuchi is their cultural food.
They tried to globalize kimchi as their own food and got sued by korea and therefore, korea patent the name which prohibited japan from stating kimchi is japanese to world (note another country trying to globalize its food other than korea which brian detests) why japan cant just call kimchi a korean dish i have no fucking clue probably b/c they have relatively shorter period of culture (note you can tell if a country has alot of history by its food and japan does not have many traditional dish) Korea is a counrty that calls a dish made by a korean only eaten by koreans chinese if it requires chinese cooking style and chinese ingredients (eg jajang myeon)
tonkatsu a japenese pork cutlet dish in korea its called tonkatsu.
However, japan calls kimchi kimuchi stating that it belongs to japan b/c it requires diff ingredients
Brain think before you blog b/c its people like you that instigates hatred towards another country without thinking why things are the way it is
cocan05, since you think I'm so full of hate, here's something up your alley: go fuck yourself you condescending prick. There, do I meet your expectations? Good, now fuck off. Commenting here is a privilege, not a right, and the next time you think about doing it, leave your attitude at home and don't insult the author who gives you room to express yourself.
We're not talking about Japan claiming "kimuchi" as their own, we're talking about using the Japanese pronunciation of "kimuchi" when a Korean is in Japan.
There is no bias toward Japan because of my fiancee, and I blog about Japan the same way I did before I met her. There's no need to speculate about my personal life.
cocan05: Perhaps you should think yourself a bit before you rail on. Tonkatsu is not called tonkatsu in Korea. And actually it is only called "tonkatsu" as a transliteration into English to accommodate us non-Japanese speaking types.
In addition, "kimchi" comes out as "kimuchi" in Japanese because of the linguistic constraints imposed by the Japanese language in an exactly synonymous fashion to the way that the example of "cheese" comes out as "cheejeu" when spoken by Koreans under the linguistic constraints of the Korean language. I don't know if the Japanese really believe that kimchi is a cultural part of Japan. I haven't ever asked them. Have you? What I am aware of is that there is a similar food in China, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar food in Japan as well.
As for what Brian detests, well, I will leave him to speak for himself. But he is pretty clear in what he finds detestable. You might not want to be trying to put words in people's mouths.
Wandering Ken wrote:
Tonkatsu is not called tonkatsu in Korea.
Huh? It's called 돈까스 in Korean, which is the Hangulization of とんかつ. (Although 돈까쓰 or 돈카쓰 might be closer to the standard Hangulization of Japanese).
I don't know if the Japanese really believe that kimchi is a cultural part of Japan. I haven't ever asked them. Have you?
Having dozens of Japanese friends and classmates with which to pose these questions, I have to say that some do think classic kimchi (i.e., the cabbage kind with the spices) is Japanese, too. Some refer to "Korean-style kimchi." :)
I don't think that's quite a majority opinion, though.
What scares me more is how many Japanese who visit Hawaii think that what happened at Pearl Harbor is sad, but the US forced Japan to attack, one or two even telling me that while we were visiting Pearl Harbor.
And cocan05 was being an ass for making this personal.
Imagine if Germany one day claimed that fish and chips were actually a Teutonic creation and that their proper name was Fisch und Kartoffelnchippe. What would the British reaction be?
I suggest the following: No-one would give a monkey's toss. Why? Because British schools and the British media refrain from inculcating British citizens with utterly spurious and destructive fantasies of racial nationalism and victimhood, similar to most nations in the developed world.
Just a thought.
Here's a better one: Imagine the Canadians responding to American claims that the telephone was an American invention. Or vice-versa. ;)
Oh yeah, I lose count of the number of tweets I read on that subject...
I imagine you're being sarcastic, Stevie Bee, but if I'm in the mood to mess with a drunken Canadian's head, I ask them why they insist on saying the telephone is Canadian.
Some don't care, but some go absolutely ape$hit. It only works if they already have a chip on their shoulder, like the Nunavut guy.
Japanese cant pronounce Gimchi, just like Koreans cant say Arimasen without the "ng" at the end, UNLESS they learn.
I lived in Japan for 4 yeras, every Japanese knows Kimchi is Korean. No biggie. Its delicious...
haters gonna hate
I'll admit I thought ‘Jung-Eun Kim’ was genuine when I first read him after koreangov's recommendation, but dude, he's really overdoing it now, he must be another parody.
And thanks to me being German, we can test Stevie Bee's assumption: “‘Fish and chips’, properly called Fisch und Kartoffelnchippe, is a healthy German diet food that is also very popular in England. That's a scientifically proven fact! Globalization of German culture is called Dogillyu (독일류). The first and second Dogillyu started in 1914 and 1939.” Now, let's wait for any reactions.
And lastly, if you're interested in that 햄버거 vs. hànbǎobāo thing, check out my comment over here.
Oooh, I could really go for some Schntizel and Pommes Frites right now.
Oh, and while I'm at it, please stop referring to the East Sea as the ‘Baltic Sea’. Saying ‘Baltic Sea’ implies that the sea somehow belongs to the Baltic states. Which it does not.
Do you know Heligoland?
@Liancourt
Why you hate British culture!! Always is Germany trying to destroy beautiful GREAT BRITAIN! American MUST LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND OUR SITUATION! Fish and chips is ENGLAND FOOD! etc, etc, etc.
PS Please accept this Fish and Chips is Britainfood bracelet.
PPS The FAROE ISLANDS is British Territory!
When japanese people call kimchi kimuchi they literally believe that kimuchi is their cultural food.
No they don't. I've lived in Japan. I have hundreds of Japanese friends, acquaintances, and colleagues. They KNOW kimchi is not Japanese.
japan does not have many traditional dish
Let me guess. You've never even visited Japan before.
tonkatsu a japenese pork cutlet dish in korea its called tonkatsu
No, it's not. In Korea, it is not pronounced "tonkatsu" because hangeul cannot duplicate "tsu". In Korea, it becomes "dongasseu" or "donkasseu" or however you wish to write it, but regardless, the name is not pronounced the same.
japan calls kimchi kimuchi[...]
...because they are unable to duplicate the sound of "kim" with their alphabet. In Japanese, it becomes "kimu".
Seeing as how you've never visited their shores, it doesn't surprise me you know nothing of their language, either.
Here's a better one: Imagine the Canadians responding to American claims that the telephone was an American invention. Or vice-versa. ;)
We both lay claim and no one gets very hyper. As a Canadian, I give this one to the Americans. Bell didn't spend much time in Canada as a Canadian citizen. Bell invented the phone in the USA while he was an American citizen with American backing.
Canadians claim he thought up the idea while summering in Canada with his family or something but the claim seems weak.
One thing we don't do is show up in the streets of Seoul begging like idiots for people to recognize Canada's claim to the phone. We're a mature country with a sense of self. We can work it out between our nations or live happily with our claims.
Having dozens of Japanese friends and classmates with which to pose these questions, I have to say that some do think classic kimchi (i.e., the cabbage kind with the spices) is Japanese, too. Some refer to "Korean-style kimchi." :)
Anyone I've pestered with these types of questions have always recognized that the spicy cabbage kimchi is Korean. They do, however, distinguish "Japanese-style" kimchi as the bland spiceless kimchi you are more likely to find in Japanese convenience stores.
Thank you Darth Babaganoosh for helping with my point, that kushibo tried to counter in an unhelpful way. That was the point I was trying to make exactly, although I guess I had to be a bit more complete and literal.
But thank you, kushibo, for clarifying that some Japanese do in fact think that kimchi is a food that is culturally Japanese. Of course, I wasn't asking if you had asked them. I was asking cocan05 who was ranting without, I think, full personal knowledge.
And, Puffin Watch, although I try to believe that we Canadians try to live in harmony with our neighbours to the south, it gets difficult at times to really think so when we have so many politicians (although I haven't heard of any in the Conservative government) making stupid cracks about the intelligence or motivations or whatnot of Americans in general, when they are in range of a microphone. Of course, those is our elected officials, and well... And we'll have to see how we fare in the harmonious relations department after the dust has settled on who in fact owns the Arctic.
Ummm... oops, I meant "...those are our elected officials..."
@Stevie Bee
I think you don't understand German culture.
Frankly speaking, the United Kingdom has never really apologized for her World Wars against Germany.
First of all brian if you cant handle insults with the type of post you put up why blog in the first place
Secondly puffin watch i am korean canadian and let me tell i am more canadian than korean that is why these things irritate me because in canada we do the exact same things to promote our culture.
We have heritage commercials on television indicating canadian accomplishments such as the invention of the telephone or winne the pooh.
Yea i agree that way things korean handle stuff is a bit extreme however, korea and usa/canada are two different cultures with different personalities where the way things handled can become unorthodox to westerners.
In canada every time i write a scientific review article for school we are told to use a primary research article where a canadian researcher was the first to discover the procedure.
Why it has to be a canadian person probably to make canadians proud of their culture a culture which is always overshadowed by the americans.
Just like korea they are always overshadowed by china or japan yes this is the korean fault because we closed off our culture to the westerners in the 19th century but ever consider why?
western countries come into a country bound by many traditions trying to impose their value onto us steal treasures from the graves of royalty
Is it right for me to go into your house and say this is the religion you should follow by these are the proper manners one should live by
I remember in grade school when all we talked about were aboriginals in history class, but one thing that caught my attention was the analogy of a priest carrying a gun in one hand and a bible in the other (all this implies is you either follow by our ideology or die) They came into a foreign country and tried to change their beliefs
none of this is right and how koreans are trying to change sea of japan to be called the east sea is not right however, no westeners has the right to criticize koreans for what they are doing
and in your comment where i stated korea used called the sea of japan the east sea for thousands of years dont be a smart ass you should know i was implying the east sea in korean translation
are serious that a japanese person doesnt know how to pronounce kimchi properly than how the fuck do they learn to speak other languages all u have to do is take the "u" out of kimuchi In canada some canadian pronounce lieutenant differently, but people still know how to pronounce it both ways ways so dont give me that bullshit that they cant pronounce it the ways koreans do and when a korean person pronounce the word tonkatsu or bento it sounds pretty much the same as the japanese pronunciation
The reason im writing this is because people only see one side of the story never both if it does not fit your standards than it is considered wrong there is this blog i started to read called jumping the asymptote the blogger writes about the things that he found strange while living in korea but he always tries to understand why and tries to think like a korean fromtheir perspective ,but brian you only blog about one thing which is your opinion and yes a blog is usually about ones opinion however, a blog like yours which gains many attention from many readers should also touch upon korean perspectives because by blogging the way you do all it does is generate hatred towards koreans when a westerners reads it.
Lastly why are you so against globalizing korean food should i be against china japan italy for globalizing their food to meet the taste of north americans and to reach out their culture?
Cocan, you stormed in here with an ad hominem attack and name-calling. No matter what valid points you may have, you came across as nothing more than a dick.
Learn to behave like an educated adult before you comment next time.
kushibo how am i not being an educated individual
Ad hominem lets be serious yes i am stating my argument thats what comments are for
Stop trying to suck up to brian or try to gain support by being against my comment without truly understanding my opinion
every one is subjective to an opinion no matter how formal or informal it may be
kushibo im not sure if your korean or not, but dont try to act like a westerner if your not
yea maybe because of all the racism i have encountered made the comment personal and i dont care if i dont get any sympathy over my opinion, but remember in the eyes of a westerner deep down your never considered an american or canadian
cocan wrote:
kushibo how am i not being an educated individual
Blowing in and calling people names and then suggesting that their argument rests on bias over their marriage partner is hardly the hallmark of an educated discussant.
Ad hominem lets be serious yes i am stating my argument thats what comments are for
You didn't just state your arguments (which are lacking, by the way): You came in and the first thing out of your virtual mouth was an insult to the host.
Stop trying to suck up to brian or try to gain support by being against my comment without truly understanding my opinion
Suck up to Brian? Try to gain support? Most of the people who frequent this site disagree with at least half of what I say, so what is the point in trying to change their minds? I try to correct misinformation, offer alternative explanations, and put distorted impressions in a different light, none of which gains me any allies. If you think I'm trying to be a suck-up to Brian or anyone, you clearly haven't been paying attention.
As for your opinion, I do understand it. I know exactly where you're coming from. You are angry that people are in a public forum dissing the culture of your ethnic heritage with what you perceive as bogus arguments.
And how do you fight that? With name-calling and ad hominem attacks. Not only will that make people ignore what valid points you do manage to make, it will make them more convinced that you and people who think like you are duckweed to be mocked or ignored.
every one is subjective to an opinion no matter how formal or informal it may be
That doesn't give you license to be an ass.
Would you listen to anyone who came at you with you came at with Brian?
Go back and start over. Begin by changing your userid to kocan so you won't come across as a brainless idiot right out of the gate.
cocan wrote:
yea maybe because of all the racism i have encountered made the comment personal and i dont care if i dont get any sympathy over my opinion, but remember in the eyes of a westerner deep down your never considered an american or canadian
You keep telling yourself that. I'll tell you the same thing I tell White folks in Korea who think that all the Koreans they encounter are racist against them: You're going to get a bad back from that huge chip on your shoulder.
You are clearly enswirled in a state of cognitive distortion where you have taken the worst encounters with the worst people you've met in Canada and then you have assumed application to everyone you see who is in the same racial category as they.
That is fu¢ked up. It's fu¢ed up when foreign residents do it in Korea, and it's fu¢ked up when 아시아계 folks do it in North America.
You, not those people, you are making your life hell.
lol i must have really gotten to you
license to be an ass? brainless idiot?
can you go over my recent comment the long ass one and for each paragraph state your opinion so that i can learn why you dont agree with my argument ( just trying to gain some other opinions)
cocan or kocan its my opinion how i spell it that should not dictate that i am a brainless idiot
cocan wrote:
cocan or kocan its my opinion how i spell it that should not dictate that i am a brainless idiot
Not quite. If you think that Korea should be spelled "Corea" because Japan changed it in order to get ahead of Korea in some way, then you are flat-out wrong. If you chose to believe that idea without checking into it, then that does indicate brainless idiocy.
cocan wrote:
can you go over my recent comment the long ass one and for each paragraph state your opinion so that i can learn why you dont agree with my argument ( just trying to gain some other opinions)
I didn't say I didn't agree with your second long comment. In fact, I believe I suggested some of the points may be valid.
But I was saying that by coming in and being a jackass from the get-go would mean that few, if any, would pay attention to your valid insight.
Try it different next time.
kushibo ok so i read your c vs k
okay your right,but it wasn't brainless of me because i believed what the korean community have said because i am korean
plus you state there is no concrete evidence and who knows what happened back than all i was doing is trusting the korean peoples claim
if that makes me a dumbass so be it
cocan wrote:
kushibo ok so i read your c vs k
okay your right,but it wasn't brainless of me because i believed what the korean community have said because i am korean
What nonsense. It is brainless if you're going to swallow something — especially something so polarizing and incendiary — without checking into it.
And what do you mean "the Korean community have said it"? You read this in a local kyopo paper? Your pastor said it in church?
And since when do you have to believe something just because another Korean told it to you? It's behavior like that that is a disservice to the kyopo community.
At any rate, while I have no idea what percentage of KoKos actually believe it, all indications are that the vast majority of Koreans have no interest in changing the spelling of the country's name, so that means they either don't believe it, or they think that even if it's true it's not that important. So I don't know what mythical or self-aggrandizing "the Korean community" you're talking about is, but it's not mainstream.
plus you state there is no concrete evidence and who knows what happened back than all i was doing is trusting the korean peoples claim
I think you're misreading that. I say there is no hard evidence that Japan changed it to a K. On the other hand, I do provide plenty of hard evidence that (a) the K spelling came about during Korean control of Korea and (b) the Japanese were wont to use not one but two C spellings rather than the K: Corea and Chōsen.
if that makes me a dumbass so be it
I didn't say you were a dumbass. I said it makes you a brainless idiot. There's a different; the latter is usually correctable given the right amount of will.
ive never met a korean japanese speaker who can properly pronounce the "tsu" sound, then again, i also never saw a Japanese Korean speaker that doesnt slip in that extra syllable. Just the nature of langauge learning. No biggie.
I do think there should be more foriegn language speakers as ESL teachers in Korea, just for the empathy factor, but I also realize they probably wouldnt work in the esl industry, maybe...
oh well...
more fighting, this in entertaining
are serious that a japanese person doesnt know how to pronounce kimchi properly than how the fuck do they learn to speak other languages all u have to do is take the "u" out of kimuchi
"are serious that a Korean person doesnt know how to pronounce finish properly than how the fuck do they learn to speak other languages all u have to do is take the "ee" out of finishee"
It's called speaking one's own language. Just as tonkatsu's pronunciation changed to fit the Korean language, so too did kimchi change to fit the Japanese language.
If you can't understand that, then you have a mighty big case of language imperialism going on in that skull of yours.
In canada every time i write a scientific review article for school we are told to use a primary research article where a canadian researcher was the first to discover the procedure
I was never under any such constraints. Sorry your school sucks.
if that makes me a dumbass so be it
Now that everyone is in agreement, can we move along?
Kushibo said.. "I don't know any Asian-Americans who use that word"
Surprisingly enough, Japanese-Canadian youths use the word 'Jap' not as a derogatory word. If you think about it, "pure" Japanese-Canadians are getting rarer and rarer in Canada and many young Japanese-Canadians are of mixed heritage with European, Chinese and Filipinos.
a_mere_wanderer wrote:
Surprisingly enough, Japanese-Canadian youths use the word 'Jap' not as a derogatory word. If you think about it, "pure" Japanese-Canadians are getting rarer and rarer in Canada and many young Japanese-Canadians are of mixed heritage with European, Chinese and Filipinos.
So you're saying that it's sort of like homosexuals trying to take back the word "queer" or more recently "fag" by copiously using it?
That might be fine, if that's happening, but what we're talking about here is non-Japanese (not citizens of Japan or ethnic Japanese) using the words. In this case and in others online in the K-blogs, it is mostly Whites and Koreans (KoKos and kyopos) using it, and I don't think they are being pushed by Japanese-Canadian use of it nor getting license from Japanese-Canadian use of it.
I've done work with the JACL and receive news releases, and the word "Jap" (and "Nip") is still something they definitely work against.
Then again, from my experience of teaching English in Japan years ago, Japanese people in Japan are extremely indifferent to oversea Japanese majority of times. I think the continuous development of human relationships with land and "feudal lords" since the Bakufu era really shaped the Japanese people's attitude on "foreign Japanese".
(Forgot to say. I'm an American who now has a Canadian citizenship.)
a_mere_wanderer wrote:
Then again, from my experience of teaching English in Japan years ago, Japanese people in Japan are extremely indifferent to oversea Japanese majority of times. I think the continuous development of human relationships with land and "feudal lords" since the Bakufu era really shaped the Japanese people's attitude on "foreign Japanese".
I'm not so sure if that explains it, because I'm not so sure if the Japanese experience is so different from the Korean, Chinese, or Vietnamese experience.
Japan as a country does concern itself with the Japanese diaspora (former Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori comes to mind, as well as the loads of Brazilian and other ethnic Japanese given special treatment — à la F4-holding kyopo, though not exactly the same.
But if there's largely indifference as you say, I think one big factor would be the movement of past immigrants away from the home country. Japanese immigration is very low, so most Japanese-Americans (or Japanese-Canadians) are separated by many more decades and generations than most of their KA/KC counterparts.
Chinese immigration in substantial numbers is older than Japanese immigration, but it is constantly replenished by new waves of immigrants. Cantonese were largely supplanted by Taiwanese, and now we're back to Mainlanders from all over. (And in turn, many Taiwanese-Americans are asserting a separate identity.)
Another thing about indifference... Before the flood of NSETs in the past decade, kyopo were at one time the whipping boys of the media, flaunting their wealth, bedding down lots of girls, bringing in drugs, and teaching English without qualification. Sound familiar? Oh, and they were also seen by some as descendants of Koreans who betrayed Korea only to come back now that it was getting wealthy and could be exploited.
Honestly the funniest part of all this to me is that red kimchi isn't even the 'traditional' Korean stuff. That's the white, vinegary flavored stuff, which actually I find quite refreshing. I wonder how many people in Korea realize that the red pepper craze started with a relatively recent trade with, apparently, the Portuguese.
*preparing for firestorm of furious responses from the "netizens"*
Arctic Penguin wrote:
*preparing for firestorm of furious responses from the "netizens"*
I'm no fan of standard kimchi. And neither are, I'd say, about 10% of Korean. But they're afraid of being discovered. Justifiably afraid? I'm not sure.
Secondly puffin watch i am korean canadian and let me tell i am more canadian than korean that is why these things irritate me because in canada we do the exact same things to promote our culture.
I'm entirely surprised by this claim. You write like a Korean university student who has never lived abroad. Like, how many years have you been educated in Canada?
We have heritage commercials on television indicating canadian accomplishments such as the invention of the telephone or winne the pooh.
And your point is?
In canada every time i write a scientific review article for school we are told to use a primary research article where a canadian researcher was the first to discover the procedure.
As the other poster noted, your school must suck. Sorry, I really can't imagine any serious academic institution making promotion of Canadian science so central. Perhaps you misunderstood something? You've continually demonstrated your inability to grasp basics like fact, logic, and evidence. So, I'm not sure now why we should take it on your single authority this claim is true or representative.
Just like korea they are always overshadowed by china or japan yes this is the korean fault because we closed off our culture to the westerners in the 19th century but ever consider why?
western countries come into a country bound by many traditions trying to impose their value onto us steal treasures from the graves of royalty
Right. Yes. Understand the great suffering of the han people. Blah blah. Sell it some place else. Maybe when you all go drinking $15 bottles of soju with your KSA buddies that line works but c'mon.
Is it right for me to go into your house and say this is the religion you should follow by these are the proper manners one should live by
I struggle to understand how this is relevant.
none of this is right and how koreans are trying to change sea of japan to be called the east sea is not right however, no westeners has the right to criticize koreans for what they are doing
Bozo, which part of "Koreans are soliciting the opinions and political support of Americans, therefore Americans have EVER SINGLE RIGHT to criticize and examine Korean claims and methods for soliciting such support". What part of that can't you grasp? "Do you like my Be the Reds tshirt?" "Not really, the slogan sounds kind of silly." "You have no right to criticize!" "But you asked for my opinion." If you're a science student, you sure did miss out on the importance of logic in science.
Still you claimed if a sea bears the name of your country this gives you extra rights. I asked you to document this fact. Do you care to withdraw that and admit you just made it up? Does your mighty school also teach you to ignore demands you support claims with fact and evidence?
and in your comment where i stated korea used called the sea of japan the east sea for thousands of years dont be a smart ass you should know i was implying the east sea in korean translation
Bozo, did you miss the complete point? Yes, you did. My point was call it whatever you want in Korean. Say you notice how Koreans called Korea "Dae Han Min Gook" in Korean but use a whole other nutty name in English, one foreigners evolved? So we'll call the Sea of Japan whatever we want in English. East sea says nothing to an English speaker. There are plenty of seas in the world. There are plenty of seas that are east of something. Sea of Japan, however, is evocative, distinctive, and gives one a reasonable idea of where it is.
The reason im writing this is because people only see one side of the story
No, actually, we do see both sides of the story, long before you barfed up what appear to be the nationalistic ravings of a 13 year old Korean boy as ready to sling insults at Brian as made up "facts". You appear to be the one who can't see both sides.
Lastly why are you so against globalizing korean food should i be against china japan italy for globalizing their food to meet the taste of north americans and to reach out their culture?
I'm more than happy Koreans bring their food to Canada and some tailor it to western tastes. I like to eat real Korean food but sometimes I like to eat westernized Korean BBQ and Korean burritos. I'm sure Brian feels the same way. However, seeing how Koreans freak the fuck out when others (the those evil Japanese) adapt their foods, one has a very good sense that if Korean food is globalized, adapted, and another culture like the evil Americans or the vile Japanese do it better than Koreans, Koreans are going to piss their pants like 5-year olds and issue bomb threats to embassies around the world.
Regarding the twitter account, a few people are saying---here and on kimchipot---that it's an elaborate troll. I'm not so sure, but I'm not really interested enough to wait and see. The evidence presented is that he doesn't tweet in Korean. But, I dunno, maybe he just feels like tweeting in English, whether for practice or for connecting to non-Koreans. I think if he were a troll he'd post more than twice a month, and would do more than simply tweet about Kim Yuna and food.
Kushibo, I'll bite:
"Now it so happens that the Telephone was invented in Brantford,[Ontario] at Tutela Heights, during my visit to my father and mother in 1874."
- Alexander Graham Bell
The telephone is Canadian.
www.brantford.ca/.../BRANTFORDHISTORY/.../AlexanderGrahamBellBrantford.aspx -
So does Korea get credit for everything you conceive of while you're living in Seoul? Sheesh.
WORD VERIFICATION: fryomens, ominous things Leila, Bender, and Professor Farnsworth should heed.
It depends what you mean by "invent" and "invention". Bell claims he thought up the solution in Brantford. But as I noted above, he actually made his working model in Boston, while being an American citizen, and with American backing.
To quote from that same page:
June 1875 - Boston, Massachusetts
First telephone constructed and speech and sound heard.
Where was the first phone made? America. Where was the first phone transmission made? America. Who made it? An American citizen.
If I make something in America while being an American citizen using money from fellow Americans, I think it's entirely reasonable for historians to call it an American invention, regardless of what nice things Bell says to the city fathers of Brantford after the fact.
I should note I'm a Canadian arguing one of the most important inventions of all time is properly claimed by the USA. And the US congress passed an act that gave an Italian a substantial claim to the invention of the phone.
Ah, the day Korea gets to the point in its national maturity that it can go "you know we should really recognize the chinese contributions to these Korean inventions."
I don't think you understand the entire issue. The aggression isn't for "kimuchi" per se... it's this notion from ~God knows where~ that Kimchi is Japanese and that Koreans stole it? Childish I know. But you have to understand that Japanese colonization wasn't too long ago. Many Koreans still have family members that lived during that time period or have heard stories of that time period. Whether you want to believe it or not, Japan inforced a lot of horrible laws on Korean natives, murdered, experimented, and trafficked many Koreans during that time. But more recently, the Korean language was claimed to be of Japanese origin and "Dokdo" was claimed to be a Japanese island ("Takeshima Day" sound familiar). So... you can't claim Japan is so innocent and claim ignorance of this conflict. In Korea, there must be hundreds of different types of "kimchi" rangeing from various regions, towns, and even households of koreans... so there is no standard to be claimed. It's not about the taste, name or sale of kimchi that the problem for a majority of Koreans. This is a matter of cultural/national pride, especially for a country where it's culture was tried so hard by the Japanese to be stripped of.
Post a Comment