"Americans can't speak Korean, so it's no shame for Koreans to be unable to speak English. So you should be proud of coming here to learn English. Have self-confidence even if you can't speak English."
On the afternoon of the 8th in the citizens' center in Macheon2-dong in Songpa-gu, Seoul, the "Lively English Classroom" saw over ten elementary school students learning English from a teacher who appeared to be a college student. The teacher is 22-year old Hong Jae-won, who acts as a public employee with certification from the citizens' center in Jamshil6-dong.
Mr. Hong, a business administration major at New York University in the United States, is known as "the public English Teacher who came to our neighborhood from America". Since last spring he has been volunteering as a free English teacher for middle school students in a study room.
Nothing wrong with trying to reduce anxiety, especially among learners of a very different foreign language. But the difference between Americans and Koreans here is, of course, Americans aren't exposed to Korean from the day they're born, don't study it throughout grade school and college, and don't have countless opportunities to hear it and read every day in adulthood.
44 comments:
Don't forget to mention the fact that they basically generalized Americans into English Speakers... which many are not; they've done the same thing with English Speakers as being Americans... which HEAPS are not.
We're also not raised with the (mis)conception that speaking Korean will make us look smarter, give us better luck with women, give us better job prospects, and otherwise inspire our friends to learn Korean as well. There aren't 3,000 books on speaking Korean for sale in ONE freakin' store.
Koreans shouldn't be forced or required to learn English - end of story.
Heaps Indeed!
Mr Hong is 22 years old and doesn't yet have his degree?
Sounds a bit "unqualified" to me...
Yeah, and how many Americans can speak another language than English? If you speak 3 languages, you're trilingual; 2 languages, you're bilingual; and one language, you're American.
How many years do Americans learn Spanish as a 2nd language and at the end of it all can only mutter a cheap, little "yo quiero Taco Bell"?
How many foreigners in Korea that end up staying for more than a year or two end up knowing only the Korean words for hi, bye, thank you, and beer/soju, etc.?
There's apathy in Korea for learning English as there is for Americans learning other important foreign languages. Knife cuts both ways. The man is trying to instill confidence in his pupils by saying there is no need to feel embarrassed, shy, or ashamed. Be confident and proud. And I agree whole-heartedly with that.
So yeah, Koreans are forced to learn English these days and have many opportunities to educate themselves on it, but on the flip side they also don't really have any opportunities to actually speak it. Americans are exposed to foreign languages from middle/high school and can't even put together a sentence or two after studying, let alone have a basic conversation in it. Not all, but most Americans.
Oh, and people don't actually believe speaking English gives you better luck with women. That's just an assumption most people have. Maybe some might believe that, but most don't. That's just an outdated belief.
AK:
Koreans are forced to learn English these days and have many opportunities to educate themselves on it, but on the flip side they also don't really have any opportunities to actually speak it.
Don't have any opportunities, or don't use the opportunities they have? If one guy speaks English, and his buddy speaks English, why don't they have a conversation in English to practice? It's what me and my friends did when learning French. In my hagwon, we have a 'cafe' set up for the (adult) students to study, and sit around drinking the free coffee and speaking English. I'll give you one guess which language they speak in 80% of the time (hint: it's in the Altaic language family). We tried to enforce a no-Korean rule, but students got pissy and threatened to quit.
Americans are exposed to foreign languages from middle/high school and can't even put together a sentence or two after studying, let alone have a basic conversation in it. Not all, but most Americans.
Try replacing 'Americans' with 'Koreans' and 'foreign languages' with 'English'. Now see if it's significantly less true. Then look at the figures for money spent per capita on language learning.
Yes, Americans broadly suck at learning languages. There's no disagreement here. The difference is that Americans have no significant motivation to learn other languages, and thus, mostly don't. Koreans, on the other hand, have convinced themselves that learning English is somehow vital to their lives, and spend vast amounts of money and time on it. The results though, aren't so different from those in the US.
That's one of the biggest problems with US education. That Americans have no motivation to learn about other cultures and languages. Why must Americans go to Europe/Asia/all over the world and the locals have to adapt themselves to the Americans? That's exactly what Obama was saying.
At least Koreans are making an effort, some more than others, to learn a new language. Whether the intention is because of their own interest or not is not the matter. Compare that to Americans who just have no interest in anything beyond the borders of the US.
Now there are a lot of Koreans who just generally refrain from speaking in English with other Koreans. But there are also a lot of Koreans who would like to, but just don't really have the opportunity to. Things are changing more and more these days compared to even 5-10 years ago. There are many more opportunities these days which is a good thing.
So yes, many Koreans don't utilize all the opportunities out there and still have a ways to go develop their speaking skills. However, Korea is generally tons better than China and especially Japan when it comes to speaking English. America on the other hand may not spend a lot of money on learning foreign languages but that doesn't take away from the fact that Americans still do learn foreign languages for years in middle/high school and university but don't really have anything to show for it as well other than a "adios/gracias/merci beacoup". But look at how many English speaking people there are here compared to the millions of Spanish-speaking people that make up America and the French-speaking people in Canada for one. You can't even begin to compare that. One could argue a person has many many more opportunities to engage in and study about Spanish/French in America/Canada than speak English in Korea.
AK: Before making broad generalizations, you might want to do some fact-checking before spreading misinformation garnered from your own perceptions.... or, at the very least, just preface what you have to say with "In my opinion..." instead of proclaiming it all as fact.
Good point Ms. Parker. But what misinformation am I spreading?
It's nice to see a young, unqualified Korean teacher spewing nonsense that reinforces the stilted perceptions and lame excuses that prevent Koreans from learning (never mind their overweening preoccupation with rote learning). It's amazing how he managed to include anti-American sentiment, anti-English sentiment, and profound insecurity all in one sentence. It's not often you see teachers handing students their justification for failure at the outset of their endeavor.
It isn't just Americans who can't speak Korean, it's the language most moderately educated people in almost every country in the world learn to create opportunities for themselves and make connections. Our language doesn't isolate us or deny us the opportunity for jobs and decent education. Our language isn't merely spoken on one tiny scrap of land by a handful of people.
Mr. Hong certainly seems to have a good grasp of the obstinance, paranoia, and insecurity that drives the market for English studies.
Wow, too bad you can't edit your comments. Brian, the paragraph should say:
It isn't just Americans who can't speak Korean, it's the overwhelming majority of the world. It's getting so boring repeating the same shit over and over again, but English is the lingua Franca of our global economy...it's the language most moderately educated people in almost every country in the world learn to create opportunities for themselves and make connections. Our language doesn't isolate us or deny us the opportunity for jobs and decent education. Our language isn't merely spoken on one tiny scrap of land by a handful of people.
Maybe Mr. Hong should return to his university in New York to brush up on his English so he can choose his words more carefully...he sounds like a real moron.
See, this is why blogs like this take the meaning out of context and create an unnecessarily negative tone among people here. If you look at the stories here, mostly the negative articles generate any comments. The positive ones don't really generate comments.
Mike, I am apalled by your statements which just reek of arrogance. Yes, nobody is denying that English is the lingua franca and a definitely important language skill to have.
How do you even know he is unqualified? He may know more than you. He may be a better teacher than you. He may be better to convey the message of learning than you. Who knows? To assume he is unqualified and just another young Korean teacher is arrogance at its worst. That's the problem with so many NSET's here. The lack of grace and cultural misinformation.
You yourself seem like somone who is insecure because there WASN'T ANY anti-American sentiment in there. Are you that insecure? That every little statement that can be perceived as a slight from a non-American is offensive? I don't know where you are getting that from. Frankly speaking, I don't even know why this is an article. Actually, I do know why but this is to be expected.
Good gosh Mike, if you really feel that way, I am sorry that Korea actually has someone like you working here. It sickens me that arrogant people like this work here. If you are truly a teacher, you would understand why he said what he said. This is why perhaps he is a better teacher than you are.
He's just basically saying that there is NO NEED to be shy or embarassed, to be self-confident, that hey Americans don't know our language so there is no need to be ashamed of not being fluent yet. Be confident, try and work hard. That's it. But you took it as a perceived slight. Now, THAT is what reeks of insecurity yo.
I don't know, Ak. It seems that if you replaced American with White Anglophone Country, you'd be pretty pretty much saying the same thing. Which makes one wonder why you singled out America. Being the second largest group of Spanish speakers in the world, I guess the 30+ million people in the US who are bilingual don't count? Or perhaps the millions of immigrants who retain their mother tongue as well as English aren't really bilingual either. Or perhaps all the universities with language programs aren't really teaching language, perhaps they're just teaching 'how to speak English louder when you travel'.
I was at a dinner party in Jeollanam-do a couple of weeks ago. Everyone spoke English quite fluently. One of the guests was a professor from a former Soviet republic, who spoke fluent Korean. Everyone was impressed, and the question was raised why couldn't I learn it? Well, I said, if you'll notice, he's fifteen years younger than me--my wits are stone! I didn't quite have the candor to bring up how famously non-multi-lingual Americans are.
And actually, there's nothing to be ashamed of. If we were a small country jammed cheek-by-jowl with lots of other small countries, of course we'd be more fluent in other languages. But, for most of our history, America has been world enough for us.
Nik, I singled out America because that was the country mentioned in the quote and as well in the other comments above. I'm not saying that there aren't bilingual people in America. There are many.
But let me ask you this, how many Americans of NON-HISPANIC heritage speak fluent Spanish? How many speak a second language fluently that is not the language of their heritage?
The Sanity Inspector, don't you think that is the problem with America? That Americans feel like America is world history enough for them. That to me is an embarrassment. I don't think big western European countries are exactly small countries jammed "cheek-by-jowl". Yet, they speak other languages as well. Just because America is the lone superpower in the world should not preclude itself from learning something other than English. How many Americans can even point out Iraq on a world map? I think you would be astonished. Korea, let alone the world shouldn't have to adapt to America/Americans in their own nation. Americans must learn to adapt to the nation they are in by: a) learning the host language b) learning the culture
AK:
Your last points are well taken. It would indeed be a courtesy for more Americans in Korea to learn at least some Korean. (disclosure: my Korean consists mostly of "excuse me", "I'm sorry", "what?", "I don't understand", and aigo )
And yes, the world is changing. Our attitude has historically been like that of imperial London in the 19th century: if something in the world is important, it will eventually come to us, no need to seek it out.
But if you have to pick only one language to learn, English is it. It is a blessing to have it as a first language, and not an insuperable handicap to have it as an only language.
@AK
"One could argue a person has many many more opportunities to engage in and study about Spanish/French in America/Canada than speak English in Korea."
This seriously made me laugh. Once you leave Quebec and some parts of New Brunswick there are few oppertunities to speak French.
I grew up 2 hours from Montreal. Sure all of our packaging lables are in both languages but that's about it. We had one TV station that had any French on it. The only people who spoke French in my city were the French teachers. I studied French for 11 years and learnt more in 2 weeks in Paris then all those years in class because even my French teachers didnt speak French to me.
So I guess learning French in Canada is just like learning English in Korea. Good to know. HAH
AK- you're making GROSS over-generalizations... and I mean that to be as punny as possible.
I don't know where you grew up in the states... but growing up in the suburbs of Chicago exposed me to everything from Spanish and French to Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Russian. And basically all those kids were bilingual.
At the age of 26 virtually everyone I know under 30 is proficient in Spanish... enough to chit-chat with busboys and get your order taken at McDonald's.
So I guess learning French in Canada is just like learning English in Korea.
Not quite. My hometown was not anywhere close to Quebec, New Brunswick or even Timmins, but it still housed an enclave of French speakers approximately half of the population. And even though I grew up in the Italian section of the city, I still found plenty of opportunity to speak French outside of the classroom. I was fluent by the time I left high school. Less so now because I haven't spoken a word of French in two decades.
Mike, how am I making a gross over generalization?
Like I said, how many Americans speak a language other than the language of their heritage? I don't think your experience reflects American society in general. Most Americans speak one language and that's English, especially the older generation. These days, America is more multi-cultural than ever so yeah, kids probably speak more of a 2nd language. But how many Americans genuinely learn a 2nd language outside of their own heritage and become fluent in it? I would say a very small percentage.
Chitchatting with busboys and taking an order down isn't what I would call proficient. One could learn that much Spanish in probably as little as a few months of intensive studying.
Darth, I think you are an exception rather than the rule. Are you telling me that most Canadians are fluent in French? From the Canadians I have met thus far, most learned French yet can't really speak it. Of course there were some that were immersed in it and speak it fluently. But considering the amount of French that is taught, the fluency rate is pretty low. Same goes for America, most Americans know some basic Spanish but yet cannot hold a conversation in it even with the amount of Spanish speakers in the country.
@AK
"But considering the amount of French that is taught, the fluency rate is pretty low."
It all depends on where you live in the country. Different areas require different ammounts. My school board (Like I said we lived close to Quebec) required us to study French until the first year of highschool. Some of my friends in other parts of the country (northern canada) only had to study it for four years. And then it was only once a week. The teacher taught French in English. Most of us assumed we would never use it again. We were never told that we would need it in the future and most of my classmates never have. We didnt need it to get a good job. We didnt need it to get into a good school and we knew it. Some people I know went through the immersion program though.
Now even though I admit I suck at French and I was taught poorly and have hardly ever used it in years I still have better understanding then most of my students here and carry on a conversation longer and more confidantly then most as well.
I run into students who were studying English a year ago and they seem to have forgotten everything and just giggle. After 4 years of being in Korea (and not studying it for maybe 16 years) and not being exposed to French I found that I could still carry on a conversation.
@ Darth Babaganoosh
Where were you?
Ok AK, Im still confused. So, if you happen to have two mother tongues, that doesn't count as bilingualism? And everyone who learns English as a second language does so at the behest of the US or some other greater power? Not because it behooves them to do so? How about all the people in the US who don't speak English (of which there were plenty in just little Rhodey). Should they suddenly become bilingual even though they've been there, operating for decades very happily without it? I just don't get what your point is. I know so many Americans who are bi-lingual or more. I don't know where you're from, but clearly it's not where I am. I guess what you're suggesting is that people should learn a language just because it's the "right" thing to do? Because it makes you special? Are you a polyglot of some merit?
I've spent the last 2 years studying Korean, just for the sake of it, because it's all but useless to me. Maybe I'm not really American though.
But in all seriousness, the suggestion that you're making is that the 46 some odd million people who speak something other than English at home, should first become fluent English speakers and then go learn another language because as people with mother tongues other than English don't count as bilingual. Or perhaps you're suggesting that the millions of people who emigrated to the US should, after generations, reconnect to their roots for the purposes of going back to where they came from? Or perhaps white people who spend the majority of their life in the interior of a massive piece of land spend time and money to learn a language on the off chance that they leave the country? In which case, they should probably choose a language that is widely spoken around the world because you never know where you're gonna go. So, well naturally English is an unacceptable language to speak, perhaps Chinese should be the choice (oh dear, but which dialect?). After all, after a long day driving a tractor through the cornfields, farmers in the end really want to go to Shenyang.
It seems to me there are lots of bilingual people in the US. Those people are either recent immigrants and their children and people with more money and time to spend on learning something that may or may not benefit them in the slightest.
Also, I think all Koreans should learn Navajo.
Word Verification:sosockdo (Dokdo's mediocre neighbor)
Darth, I think you are an exception rather than the rule. Are you telling me that most Canadians are fluent in French?
Fluent? Hardly. But I can say with confidence that students in my hometown studied French just as long as Koreans study English--I studied from grade 3 to grade 12, although it's only mandatory to grade 9--and overall (in general) our proficiency was head and shoulders above most Korean uni students I see come into my sophomore classes. Fluent? No. Better? Hell yes.
@fattycat: I was down between Toronto and Niagara Falls. Not exactly Ground Zero for sprechen sie francais.
@Darth Babaganoosh
Do you mind sharing exactly where you were? I lived in that area for 7 years and had very few chances to speak French. Was it by chance Welland? I dont doubt you. Just curious for the future.
Nik, what I'm saying is that Americans are just generally ignorant of other language/cultures and tend to force people of other nations to adapt to them. For those that are bilingual, they are mostly bilingual because of their family. Most probably have parents or relatives that don't speak English as a first language. So of course naturally they are more likely to speak it somewhat fluently or very fluently.
Now contrast that with Koreans. How many Koreans come from a bilingual background? How many have parents or a family structure in which they can converse in English? I would say a slim amount.
@ Fattycat, I'm not sure about your students but I think it points out a cultural difference. Whereas as North Americans are generally comfortable in engaging in conversation with relative strangers, Koreans are still a little guarded when it comes to people they don't know too well, especially conversing in a foreign language. I would argue that most Koreans who have some study abroad experience can speak well, just they might be too shy to say so. And just because there is no urgency to learn French just seems like an excuse. Many Koreans feel the same way about English, especially in middle and high school. Of course, they know English is important. But that doesn't change the fact they are still young teenagers who are more interested in playing. To most of them, most NSET's are just some novelty to kind of play around with and have a little fun, not to seriously learn. Whether or not that is good/bad is not the point. It's just how it is. Like I said, Koreans may not be the best when it comes to speaking English as a 2nd language, but I would say it is tons better than China and Japan.
I'm Canadian, English first language, and fluently bilingual in French - through studying and immersion. When I was teaching in rural Quebec, our students graduated with high enough proficiency in English to study at the university level - even though almost none of them spoke English at home. Those in the language stream also learned Spanish and Latin. My former students are living and working not only throughout English Canada, but also in Peru, Singapore and China.
Funny, I used to tell my students not to be ashamed of their accents, since I have an accent when I speak French, and an accent *proves* that you speak different languages.
The problem, AK, with your comments is that you are painting everyone with the same brush, and stating it as fact (Oh, if you speak only 1 language, you must be American). The actual linguistic breakdown - 1st languages - is as follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States
When I was teaching in a Korean highschool, I had the feeling that the students and teachers weren't too concerned with actual proficiency in English, but on how to best pass the exams. If we use this metaphor for another school subject, say math, we could ask how many people can still do algebra! Sure, I studied for an passed my Grade 11 math exam (oh so many years ago), but I highly doubt I could even understand it if shown it again today. This would not be a reflection on my teachers, or on my study skills, but on the fact that don't generally use it in everyday life.
Out of curiosity, AK, what is your linguistic background? How long have you been studying the L2 phenomenon amongst English-speaking Americans? Is it merely based on anecdotal evidence, or have you actually studied it across generations?pen
ak, how is America forcing the world to "adapt to them"? And how are those sneaky Quebecois getting away with all that gibberish talk? And if Americans originating from other countries don't count in this discussion(which I personally think they should), which Americans are you talking about?
@ Darth..Most Koreans especially from rural provinces cannot afford any private English education because of the money/location. In the classroom, conversational English is not the main point of discussion as you probably know.
@ MsParker..I am from Los Angeles. English is my first language. Being from Los Angeles which is probably one of the most international cities in the whole world if not most international city, I can say with confidence the language diversity I have come across. If students even in LA can't really speak lick of Spanish in a city that is predominantly Spanish, that really speaks wonders of the foreign language educational system in LA, let alone America. The ones who could speak both languages were naturally the ones of Hispanic heritage. Of course I know that there are many Americans who can speak more than language. But those are predominantly ones from immigrant families. So it's not because they learned it in school, but most likely they learned it at home from their parents. What I'm talking about is the foreign language system at the public educational level.
Naturally, Koreans aren't too focused on English speaking proficiency. I mean, why should they? It's not required so it's not in their interest to devote precious time to speaking. Most can read and understand quite well.
@ Nik, what I'm referring to is what I see in Korea all the time. Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. always using English with Koreans. I'm not saying you can't ever use English with Koreans. And assuredly, some may be tourists just here on a short visit, etc. I'm talking about the ones who have been here for some time. But almost undoubtedly, most always force Koreans to adapt to them. That is just rude and arrogant I believe. For example when ordering food or coffee or whatever, always speaking in English. Uh, this is Korea. One should learn the language and learn how to say it in Korean. Not only with food but just in most parts of everyday life, speaking English only in Korea. Now, these may just have been with the people I saw and may not represent everyone else but I don't think what I said is too far from reality.
@AK
"Whereas as North Americans are generally comfortable in engaging in conversation with relative strangers, Koreans are still a little guarded when it comes to people they don't know too well, especially conversing in a foreign language."
These are students who I have taught and spoken with from 2-5 hours a week for a year that I am refering to. I talk to them every class comfortably and then a couple of months later I run into them on the street, they giggle and run away.
"And just because there is no urgency to learn French just seems like an excuse. Many Koreans feel the same way about English, especially in middle and high school."
French was our only choice in school. I learnt French because I had to. I wanted to learn Russian or Japanese. There wasnt a choice. You had to learn French. Yes, that's similar to Korea...except in Korea students are told that they need English for their future, their job, to get into a good school. Wether it should be necessary for those things is a different issue but it is right now. French wasnt necessary for my future. Yes, I wish I spoke it better but at the time there was no point and the attitude of the teachers gave that impression too.
"Being from Los Angeles which is probably one of the most international cities in the whole world if not most international city,"
Not sure if you mean multicultural but Toronto is largely believed to be the most multicultural city in the world.
"Koreans aren't too focused on English speaking proficiency. I mean, why should they? It's not required so it's not in their interest to devote precious time to speaking. Most can read and understand quite well."
I dont know where you are getting this information from but it IS required these days. Some universities are switching over to all English classes and many jobs require English test scores or even presintations. I had a student who was applying to be a ship builder and he had to do a crazy presintation in English for the interview. Even if they will never use it in their job many employers are still wanting it. Heck, Mc Donalds, Starbucks and Outback all want their servers to speak English.
"For example when ordering food or coffee or whatever, always speaking in English"
I always speak in Korean and the servers insist on speaking to me in Korean and then there is massive confusion
btw, AK what part of the country are you living in? I'm sure you know that experiences from city to city and difference provinces are very different
I am well aware Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world. But does it really matter? LOL. I don't think there is much difference in terms of diversity between Toronto and LA. And certainly LA has more Koreans, Korean-Americans than Toronto.
These days, Korean students are so much better at speaking compared to the students from even 10 years ago. Even if they do know it's for their future, it doesn't matter. What about Japanese kids? Why don't they speak better? They are probably one of the worst speakers of English in Asia. They all know they need to speak English for their future as well.
I'm not saying workers don't have to use English these days. More and more have to. But the majority just have to be able to read and write in English to correspond with others.
So that is good you speak in Korean to them. They speak in Korean to you. Why is there confusion? Do they speak too quickly? Listening isn't that great yet?
I'm situated near Seoul. you?
@Mike,
Maybe the "suburbs" are more of a melting pot than the city, but among my work colleagues and from listening in at Mexican restaurants, McDonald's or any other predominantly Mexican-staffed store of options, the city is clearly well, well, well short of your "everyone is fluent" in Spanish proclaimation.
So in a post deriding AK for broad generalizations, you make a grossly inaccurate one yourself.
In addition, I think you guys are clinging to non-existent xenophobia. It's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison (Korean schools teach English, but most American schools don't offer Korean), but the teacher said the statement mostly to calm the students.
And read the fineprint: We're dealing with ELEMENTARY school students. Not high school students or even middle school students.
Elementary school kids.
Lighten up guys. Not every Korean is conspiring to have a full-on assault on English teachers. Most people, and probably including Mr. Hong, just don't give a shit about the topic.
Good to see this spawned some conversation as well. As I did on the other thread, I tell you that personal attacks are not welcome. First and last warning here.
This guy was off the mark bringing Americans into this. But what could have been a better fit was something like "Americans aren't rushing to learn foreign languges, so there's no reason to pursue English like crazy." Or something more intelligent. I'm tired, but you get the point.
I'll reiterate that I do think Americans need to make more effort to learn foreign languages. But, we need to stop this belief that Americans are monolingual. I'm not even talking about ethnic communities of first- and second-generation immigrants where one or more foreign languages are used in the home or in business. And I'm not talking about places like LA or New York where you walk down the street and find 10 different languages in a neighborhood.
I studied German for four years in high school, then had a break for three years, then studied two more years in college. I've never spoken German in an authentic situation---i.e., with a German---and aside from a news clip or movie here or there, haven't been exposed to the language since 2004. However, my German is still better than the English of most Koreans and Japanese people I've encountered since coming to Asia. And these are people around the language their whole lives---look down at the keyboard and tell me what alphabet you see---who study the language for years, and who have many opportunities every day to use and experience the language.
You might say that their education hasn't conditioned them to actually use the language, or to do anything with it besides passing a test when they're 17-years-old. However, you have the belief that Koreans and Japanese and whomever are feverishly learning foreign languages while Americans are being fat, stupid, and lazy, content with their version of English. I'll say again, for the third time here, that Americans do need to put more effort into learning foreign languages---into learning a lot of things, actually---but it's quite wrong to imply we're monolingual.
I don't consider myself terribly proficient in any foreign languages, but like I said I can comprehend German. Thus, I can make some sense out of other Germanic languages when I see them in print. Growing up as an English speaker, I've also learned to recognize how English was made, meaning I can make some sense out of Romance languages as well, even though I never studied Latin formally. I also consider myself low-intermediate in Korean, can navigate Korean-language pages, can browse the internet for news and services, and can function at a higher level than the average Korean can in English. So, I think I compare pretty favorably.
@AK
"So that is good you speak in Korean to them. They speak in Korean to you. Why is there confusion? Do they speak too quickly? Listening isn't that great yet?"
Sorry, typo. I speak in Korean with them and they speak in English to me and then the confusion happens. If we are both speaking Korean there is no problem.
It's because there are two people trying to talk to eachother in two different languages and neither of the people are native speakers of those languages. And no matter how hard I try to convince them to talk to me in Korean they wont because their boss tells them that they have to talk in English.
Brian, I think you are the exception once again. I think it is naive to assume Americans are proficient in another language. I'm sure many are. But the majority probably remember a few words/phrases here and there and can probably order something while saying something in a broken fashion. But tell me which language do Americans mostly use when traveling abroad? Yes, English is the lingua franca and everyone knows it. Yet, Americans still tend to overwhelmingly rely on English everywhere they go.
And I don't think the guy was off the mark bringing America into the mix. I think anytime America/English is mentioned in the same article with Korea, your senses automatically go off and you look for any way to exaggerate the context in which it was made. See, this comment is another prime example of learning the language and culture in which it was made. You can't comprehend the nuances in the meaning if you don't know how it was said. If you just read the literal translation, you get a different implication than reading it and saying it in Korean. This is how many people misinterpret things in Korean and Koreans misinterpret things in English.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he was just trying to instill confidence in his students and saying there is nothing wrong with not knowing English because Americans as well cannot speak Korean. Be strong and don't put your head down or be shy. There is no need to be.
You would know this if you could converse in Korean and have been around Koreans for the majority of your life. The subtle nuances in the language and the way words are expressed. Many people here just read the ENGLISH TRANSLATION and come to a hasty conclusion. Don't do that. Learn the language. Talk to Koreans from all walks of life. Watch dramas. Watch the news. All in Korean.
@fattycat
Yep. But back then it not a very diverse area. Roughly half French and half Italian, with a smattering of Polish. Nowadays, it's much more diverse, with it's largish populations of Romanians, Ukraines, Hungarians, and the like.
I picked up a bit of Italian because I lived in that section of town, but lots of places like banks and service industries and such were staffed by francophones, so I could get a lot of practice in outside of class.
I can't speak for the businesses or the language education there now. It's been twen*cough*cough*HAAAACK*cough* years since I graduated and left.
@ Darth Babaganoosh
Friends of our family lived there when I was a kid. We were a stones throw from Quebec and they had much bigger French population then we did.
I grew up around Koreans, but my Korean is conversational (though most White Americans -- their words not mine -- claim I am fluent) because my proficiency stops at about the middle school level. I can read the Korean news, but not textbooks or literature. So my translation below of the Korean is not to be taken as a gold standard by any means.
Still, as I said, I can read the Korean news with ease. So knowing that, I agree with AK's point of:
Don't get in a tizzy over the English translation unless you can read the Korean. Korea Beat is an amazing blog, and I scan its English translations, but when something looks particularly controversial or fishy, I read the Korean myself.
The K blogosphere grabbed onto the first sentence of this post and got offended. Brian, whom I quite respect as a blogger and commenter, has attempted to turn that one statement into an assault on English teachers and a broader statement about lazy, fat, uncultured Americans.
To say Mr. Hong was asserting, "Americans are monolingual and lazy, but Koreans are NOT" is quite a stretch. No? Mr. Hong, according to the article, only said that to calm ELEMENTARY ELEMENTARY ELEMENTARY school students who might be freaked out by this foreign subject, called English.
I don't know Mr. Hong's motives, but let's look at a couple of things from the article--in Korean:
1) the headline.
미국서 온 ‘공익 ET’ 떴다
How anti-American can a story be if the headline says an American teacher?
2) That first line.
미국 사람이 한국말을 못하듯이 한국 사람이 영어를 못하는 건 부끄러운게 아니에요
Now as AK said, there are a lot of nuances to the language. But 부끄럽다, while it does mean "shameful" it could also be just as easily translated as shy or timid.
So if the less head-on translation becomes:
Don't be ashamed you can't speak English because Americans don't speak our language.
Maybe you take the same read of the quote. But as a way to calm children is this a political assault? I doubt it. The Korea Beat is amazing in many ways, but sometimes its translations are right out of Babelfish.
3) How much does Mr. Hong hate Americans? And how shall we infer that he is secretly plotting to eradicate all American ETs?
홍씨는 아이들 사이에서 ‘미국에서 온 우리동네 공익 ET(English Teacher)’로 불린다
He introduces himself as being from America, and even as an ET.
**
To be fair, there is room to make the conspiracy theory that a positive article on an ET is--of course, Korean.
But that then becomes a media/gatekeeper issue, which to say the Korean media is biased against white male NSETs is only to admit that Fox News Channel is biased against Obama.
But to say because Chosun Ilbo doesn't like white NSETs and say Mr. Hong also holds the same ideology -- that is ridiculous.
@t_song
You make a good point about not getting too hung up on the specific phrasing of something that's been translated from another language. And besides, I personally didn't find the tone of the article as translated by Korea Beat to be particularly negative anyway.
But the original article still makes me curious about something: why compare Koreans and Americans at all? The two countries are in completely different situations, linguistically, so isn't it like comparing apples to oranges?
Apropos of this entire thread:
http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/reprints/weber/rep-weber.htm
That has no bearing on this thread. LOL.
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